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Re: Battery cable came off!
Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns989685880ECE2tegger@207.14.116.130: > Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in > news:ovefh.470560$R63.142904@pd7urf1no: > >> sharx333 wrote: >>> Hi, was checking my '95 Civic 1.6L today. It was idling, and I heard >>> the idle sound change: it seemed higher. I stepped on the gas a bit, >>> and I heard a soft electrical "pop" near the stereo panel. I >>> hurriedly shut down the engine, I found that the negative battery >>> cable had come off! (It had a quick-release connection). I connected >>> it, restarted and found everything working fine, even checked all >>> the stereo functions, LEDs, and the ECU. >>> >>> I've read that the battery acts as a big capacitor to smooth out >>> voltage spikes. The entire episode didn't take more that 10 seconds, >>> but I'm worried... could there be any permanent damage? >> >> You read wrong. The battery reacts too slowly to absorb spikes, it >> lives at 12V versus your alternator's typical 13.5-14.5V, your >> alternator wouldn't produce a spike unless it failed spectacularly, >> and having the terminal come off wouldn't cause a spike either. > > > > It absolutely would. Damage may not always occur, but there will be > spikes. > > The battery's secondary function IS to provide a buffer for the > alternator's pulses. Connecting the cables together without the > battery in between is dangerous to the car and should NOT be done. You > could to that n 1976, but not now. > > http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq2.htm > > >> >> Ultimately, cars have batteries for one purpose: starting the engine. >> Once the engine is running, the alternator provides for all the car's >> power requirements. >> Yes, batteries are also used to power accessories when the car is >> off, but the >> only reason they're there in the first place is to crank the starter. >> > > > See the above link. > > > To clarify;the alternator generates AC voltage which is rectified to pulsating DC,and the ONLY thing that smooths it to reasonably pure DC is the battery. Otherwise,your car radio would be buzzing in tune with the engine RPM. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Battery cable came off!
Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns989685880ECE2tegger@207.14.116.130: > Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in > news:ovefh.470560$R63.142904@pd7urf1no: > >> sharx333 wrote: >>> Hi, was checking my '95 Civic 1.6L today. It was idling, and I heard >>> the idle sound change: it seemed higher. I stepped on the gas a bit, >>> and I heard a soft electrical "pop" near the stereo panel. I >>> hurriedly shut down the engine, I found that the negative battery >>> cable had come off! (It had a quick-release connection). I connected >>> it, restarted and found everything working fine, even checked all >>> the stereo functions, LEDs, and the ECU. >>> >>> I've read that the battery acts as a big capacitor to smooth out >>> voltage spikes. The entire episode didn't take more that 10 seconds, >>> but I'm worried... could there be any permanent damage? >> >> You read wrong. The battery reacts too slowly to absorb spikes, it >> lives at 12V versus your alternator's typical 13.5-14.5V, your >> alternator wouldn't produce a spike unless it failed spectacularly, >> and having the terminal come off wouldn't cause a spike either. > > > > It absolutely would. Damage may not always occur, but there will be > spikes. > > The battery's secondary function IS to provide a buffer for the > alternator's pulses. Connecting the cables together without the > battery in between is dangerous to the car and should NOT be done. You > could to that n 1976, but not now. > > http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq2.htm > > >> >> Ultimately, cars have batteries for one purpose: starting the engine. >> Once the engine is running, the alternator provides for all the car's >> power requirements. >> Yes, batteries are also used to power accessories when the car is >> off, but the >> only reason they're there in the first place is to crank the starter. >> > > > See the above link. > > > To clarify;the alternator generates AC voltage which is rectified to pulsating DC,and the ONLY thing that smooths it to reasonably pure DC is the battery. Otherwise,your car radio would be buzzing in tune with the engine RPM. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Battery cable came off!
Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns989685880ECE2tegger@207.14.116.130: > Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in > news:ovefh.470560$R63.142904@pd7urf1no: > >> sharx333 wrote: >>> Hi, was checking my '95 Civic 1.6L today. It was idling, and I heard >>> the idle sound change: it seemed higher. I stepped on the gas a bit, >>> and I heard a soft electrical "pop" near the stereo panel. I >>> hurriedly shut down the engine, I found that the negative battery >>> cable had come off! (It had a quick-release connection). I connected >>> it, restarted and found everything working fine, even checked all >>> the stereo functions, LEDs, and the ECU. >>> >>> I've read that the battery acts as a big capacitor to smooth out >>> voltage spikes. The entire episode didn't take more that 10 seconds, >>> but I'm worried... could there be any permanent damage? >> >> You read wrong. The battery reacts too slowly to absorb spikes, it >> lives at 12V versus your alternator's typical 13.5-14.5V, your >> alternator wouldn't produce a spike unless it failed spectacularly, >> and having the terminal come off wouldn't cause a spike either. > > > > It absolutely would. Damage may not always occur, but there will be > spikes. > > The battery's secondary function IS to provide a buffer for the > alternator's pulses. Connecting the cables together without the > battery in between is dangerous to the car and should NOT be done. You > could to that n 1976, but not now. > > http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq2.htm > > >> >> Ultimately, cars have batteries for one purpose: starting the engine. >> Once the engine is running, the alternator provides for all the car's >> power requirements. >> Yes, batteries are also used to power accessories when the car is >> off, but the >> only reason they're there in the first place is to crank the starter. >> > > > See the above link. > > > To clarify;the alternator generates AC voltage which is rectified to pulsating DC,and the ONLY thing that smooths it to reasonably pure DC is the battery. Otherwise,your car radio would be buzzing in tune with the engine RPM. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Battery cable came off!
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:eNidnUXxjMR6YuDYnZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@sedona.net: > "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1165860667.015764.119790@j72g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com... >> I'm happy to be wrong on this one, Matt. Thanks, guys. *Whew*. >> >> Mike: Lightning strikes, really? Wow. >> > > Yep - mostly mountaintop sites, two or three a year since I moved to the > mountains. For some reason the storms prefer holidays and my anniversary! > > Mike > > > Try Central Florida,the lightning capital of the US. Also,the power density of Florida strikes are on average twice that of northern lightning strikes. I've had a pine tree about 300 ft from my apartment(tallest in the area) get struck(and killed) while I was watching. The bolt travelled right down the side,blowing a channel of bark off the tree. It took out a surge protector on my phone line and my modem,didn't harm the phones or the TeleZapper. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Battery cable came off!
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:eNidnUXxjMR6YuDYnZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@sedona.net: > "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1165860667.015764.119790@j72g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com... >> I'm happy to be wrong on this one, Matt. Thanks, guys. *Whew*. >> >> Mike: Lightning strikes, really? Wow. >> > > Yep - mostly mountaintop sites, two or three a year since I moved to the > mountains. For some reason the storms prefer holidays and my anniversary! > > Mike > > > Try Central Florida,the lightning capital of the US. Also,the power density of Florida strikes are on average twice that of northern lightning strikes. I've had a pine tree about 300 ft from my apartment(tallest in the area) get struck(and killed) while I was watching. The bolt travelled right down the side,blowing a channel of bark off the tree. It took out a surge protector on my phone line and my modem,didn't harm the phones or the TeleZapper. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Battery cable came off!
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:eNidnUXxjMR6YuDYnZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@sedona.net: > "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1165860667.015764.119790@j72g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com... >> I'm happy to be wrong on this one, Matt. Thanks, guys. *Whew*. >> >> Mike: Lightning strikes, really? Wow. >> > > Yep - mostly mountaintop sites, two or three a year since I moved to the > mountains. For some reason the storms prefer holidays and my anniversary! > > Mike > > > Try Central Florida,the lightning capital of the US. Also,the power density of Florida strikes are on average twice that of northern lightning strikes. I've had a pine tree about 300 ft from my apartment(tallest in the area) get struck(and killed) while I was watching. The bolt travelled right down the side,blowing a channel of bark off the tree. It took out a surge protector on my phone line and my modem,didn't harm the phones or the TeleZapper. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Battery cable came off!
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:eNidnUXxjMR6YuDYnZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@sedona.net: > "sharx333" <emil.santos@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1165860667.015764.119790@j72g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com... >> I'm happy to be wrong on this one, Matt. Thanks, guys. *Whew*. >> >> Mike: Lightning strikes, really? Wow. >> > > Yep - mostly mountaintop sites, two or three a year since I moved to the > mountains. For some reason the storms prefer holidays and my anniversary! > > Mike > > > Try Central Florida,the lightning capital of the US. Also,the power density of Florida strikes are on average twice that of northern lightning strikes. I've had a pine tree about 300 ft from my apartment(tallest in the area) get struck(and killed) while I was watching. The bolt travelled right down the side,blowing a channel of bark off the tree. It took out a surge protector on my phone line and my modem,didn't harm the phones or the TeleZapper. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Re: Battery cable came off!
The battery does as Jim said. But another condition called load dump
could have created a destructive transient. Load dump is defined by the ISO to be as large as 270 volts on the 12 volt system. SGS Thompson defines it as 80 to 100 volts. But then better automobiles are designed with electronics that make load dump not destructive. Of course when you connect a computer to the car using a discount inverter, does it have load dump protection - or did you just save some pennies? The damage, if it occurred, would be complete in milliseconds. Apparently you did not suffer load dump damage. But you, like many others who replied here, should know of load dump and what automotive electronics (properly constructed) cost more money. sharx333 wrote: > Hi, was checking my '95 Civic 1.6L today. It was idling, and I heard > the idle sound change: it seemed higher. I stepped on the gas a bit, > and I heard a soft electrical "pop" near the stereo panel. I hurriedly > shut down the engine, I found that the negative battery cable had come > off! (It had a quick-release connection). I connected it, restarted and > found everything working fine, even checked all the stereo functions, > LEDs, and the ECU. > > I've read that the battery acts as a big capacitor to smooth out > voltage spikes. The entire episode didn't take more that 10 seconds, > but I'm worried... could there be any permanent damage? |
Re: Battery cable came off!
The battery does as Jim said. But another condition called load dump
could have created a destructive transient. Load dump is defined by the ISO to be as large as 270 volts on the 12 volt system. SGS Thompson defines it as 80 to 100 volts. But then better automobiles are designed with electronics that make load dump not destructive. Of course when you connect a computer to the car using a discount inverter, does it have load dump protection - or did you just save some pennies? The damage, if it occurred, would be complete in milliseconds. Apparently you did not suffer load dump damage. But you, like many others who replied here, should know of load dump and what automotive electronics (properly constructed) cost more money. sharx333 wrote: > Hi, was checking my '95 Civic 1.6L today. It was idling, and I heard > the idle sound change: it seemed higher. I stepped on the gas a bit, > and I heard a soft electrical "pop" near the stereo panel. I hurriedly > shut down the engine, I found that the negative battery cable had come > off! (It had a quick-release connection). I connected it, restarted and > found everything working fine, even checked all the stereo functions, > LEDs, and the ECU. > > I've read that the battery acts as a big capacitor to smooth out > voltage spikes. The entire episode didn't take more that 10 seconds, > but I'm worried... could there be any permanent damage? |
Re: Battery cable came off!
The battery does as Jim said. But another condition called load dump
could have created a destructive transient. Load dump is defined by the ISO to be as large as 270 volts on the 12 volt system. SGS Thompson defines it as 80 to 100 volts. But then better automobiles are designed with electronics that make load dump not destructive. Of course when you connect a computer to the car using a discount inverter, does it have load dump protection - or did you just save some pennies? The damage, if it occurred, would be complete in milliseconds. Apparently you did not suffer load dump damage. But you, like many others who replied here, should know of load dump and what automotive electronics (properly constructed) cost more money. sharx333 wrote: > Hi, was checking my '95 Civic 1.6L today. It was idling, and I heard > the idle sound change: it seemed higher. I stepped on the gas a bit, > and I heard a soft electrical "pop" near the stereo panel. I hurriedly > shut down the engine, I found that the negative battery cable had come > off! (It had a quick-release connection). I connected it, restarted and > found everything working fine, even checked all the stereo functions, > LEDs, and the ECU. > > I've read that the battery acts as a big capacitor to smooth out > voltage spikes. The entire episode didn't take more that 10 seconds, > but I'm worried... could there be any permanent damage? |
Re: Battery cable came off!
The battery does as Jim said. But another condition called load dump
could have created a destructive transient. Load dump is defined by the ISO to be as large as 270 volts on the 12 volt system. SGS Thompson defines it as 80 to 100 volts. But then better automobiles are designed with electronics that make load dump not destructive. Of course when you connect a computer to the car using a discount inverter, does it have load dump protection - or did you just save some pennies? The damage, if it occurred, would be complete in milliseconds. Apparently you did not suffer load dump damage. But you, like many others who replied here, should know of load dump and what automotive electronics (properly constructed) cost more money. sharx333 wrote: > Hi, was checking my '95 Civic 1.6L today. It was idling, and I heard > the idle sound change: it seemed higher. I stepped on the gas a bit, > and I heard a soft electrical "pop" near the stereo panel. I hurriedly > shut down the engine, I found that the negative battery cable had come > off! (It had a quick-release connection). I connected it, restarted and > found everything working fine, even checked all the stereo functions, > LEDs, and the ECU. > > I've read that the battery acts as a big capacitor to smooth out > voltage spikes. The entire episode didn't take more that 10 seconds, > but I'm worried... could there be any permanent damage? |
Re: Battery cable came off!
Tegger wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in > news:ovefh.470560$R63.142904@pd7urf1no: > > >>sharx333 wrote: >> >>>Hi, was checking my '95 Civic 1.6L today. It was idling, and I heard >>>the idle sound change: it seemed higher. I stepped on the gas a bit, >>>and I heard a soft electrical "pop" near the stereo panel. I >>>hurriedly shut down the engine, I found that the negative battery >>>cable had come off! (It had a quick-release connection). I connected >>>it, restarted and found everything working fine, even checked all the >>>stereo functions, LEDs, and the ECU. >>> >>>I've read that the battery acts as a big capacitor to smooth out >>>voltage spikes. The entire episode didn't take more that 10 seconds, >>>but I'm worried... could there be any permanent damage? >> >>You read wrong. The battery reacts too slowly to absorb spikes, it >>lives at 12V versus your alternator's typical 13.5-14.5V, your >>alternator wouldn't produce a spike unless it failed spectacularly, >>and having the terminal come off wouldn't cause a spike either. > > > > > It absolutely would. Damage may not always occur, but there will be spikes. Fair enough - a SIGNIFICANT spike. > The battery's secondary function IS to provide a buffer for the > alternator's pulses. And pray, how does it do that? It's not a voltage regulator, it's not a capacitor. Internal resistance limits how quickly it can react to voltage changes. > Connecting the cables together without the battery in > between is dangerous to the car and should NOT be done. You mean the battery cables? Yeah, that'll fry your alternator in a hurry, since you're basically shorting its output. > You could to that n 1976, but not now. I wouldn't even try it in a '76. > http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq2.htm > > > >>Ultimately, cars have batteries for one purpose: starting the engine. >>Once the engine is running, the alternator provides for all the car's >>power requirements. >> Yes, batteries are also used to power accessories when the car is >> off, but the >>only reason they're there in the first place is to crank the starter. >> > > > > See the above link. See the phrase "IN THE FIRST PLACE" in my above paragraph. Of the four uses Darden lists for the battery, I've already noted the first and fourth above... for the second ("filter and stabilize") it can only do so much - there's still ripple in the voltage measured even with the battery, as the charging voltage is usually well above the battery's voltage... as for the third, if the battery is really needing to "provide extra power" while running, then the charging system is under-rated to begin with, and the battery is acting as a band-aid. |
Re: Battery cable came off!
Tegger wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in > news:ovefh.470560$R63.142904@pd7urf1no: > > >>sharx333 wrote: >> >>>Hi, was checking my '95 Civic 1.6L today. It was idling, and I heard >>>the idle sound change: it seemed higher. I stepped on the gas a bit, >>>and I heard a soft electrical "pop" near the stereo panel. I >>>hurriedly shut down the engine, I found that the negative battery >>>cable had come off! (It had a quick-release connection). I connected >>>it, restarted and found everything working fine, even checked all the >>>stereo functions, LEDs, and the ECU. >>> >>>I've read that the battery acts as a big capacitor to smooth out >>>voltage spikes. The entire episode didn't take more that 10 seconds, >>>but I'm worried... could there be any permanent damage? >> >>You read wrong. The battery reacts too slowly to absorb spikes, it >>lives at 12V versus your alternator's typical 13.5-14.5V, your >>alternator wouldn't produce a spike unless it failed spectacularly, >>and having the terminal come off wouldn't cause a spike either. > > > > > It absolutely would. Damage may not always occur, but there will be spikes. Fair enough - a SIGNIFICANT spike. > The battery's secondary function IS to provide a buffer for the > alternator's pulses. And pray, how does it do that? It's not a voltage regulator, it's not a capacitor. Internal resistance limits how quickly it can react to voltage changes. > Connecting the cables together without the battery in > between is dangerous to the car and should NOT be done. You mean the battery cables? Yeah, that'll fry your alternator in a hurry, since you're basically shorting its output. > You could to that n 1976, but not now. I wouldn't even try it in a '76. > http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq2.htm > > > >>Ultimately, cars have batteries for one purpose: starting the engine. >>Once the engine is running, the alternator provides for all the car's >>power requirements. >> Yes, batteries are also used to power accessories when the car is >> off, but the >>only reason they're there in the first place is to crank the starter. >> > > > > See the above link. See the phrase "IN THE FIRST PLACE" in my above paragraph. Of the four uses Darden lists for the battery, I've already noted the first and fourth above... for the second ("filter and stabilize") it can only do so much - there's still ripple in the voltage measured even with the battery, as the charging voltage is usually well above the battery's voltage... as for the third, if the battery is really needing to "provide extra power" while running, then the charging system is under-rated to begin with, and the battery is acting as a band-aid. |
Re: Battery cable came off!
Tegger wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in > news:ovefh.470560$R63.142904@pd7urf1no: > > >>sharx333 wrote: >> >>>Hi, was checking my '95 Civic 1.6L today. It was idling, and I heard >>>the idle sound change: it seemed higher. I stepped on the gas a bit, >>>and I heard a soft electrical "pop" near the stereo panel. I >>>hurriedly shut down the engine, I found that the negative battery >>>cable had come off! (It had a quick-release connection). I connected >>>it, restarted and found everything working fine, even checked all the >>>stereo functions, LEDs, and the ECU. >>> >>>I've read that the battery acts as a big capacitor to smooth out >>>voltage spikes. The entire episode didn't take more that 10 seconds, >>>but I'm worried... could there be any permanent damage? >> >>You read wrong. The battery reacts too slowly to absorb spikes, it >>lives at 12V versus your alternator's typical 13.5-14.5V, your >>alternator wouldn't produce a spike unless it failed spectacularly, >>and having the terminal come off wouldn't cause a spike either. > > > > > It absolutely would. Damage may not always occur, but there will be spikes. Fair enough - a SIGNIFICANT spike. > The battery's secondary function IS to provide a buffer for the > alternator's pulses. And pray, how does it do that? It's not a voltage regulator, it's not a capacitor. Internal resistance limits how quickly it can react to voltage changes. > Connecting the cables together without the battery in > between is dangerous to the car and should NOT be done. You mean the battery cables? Yeah, that'll fry your alternator in a hurry, since you're basically shorting its output. > You could to that n 1976, but not now. I wouldn't even try it in a '76. > http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq2.htm > > > >>Ultimately, cars have batteries for one purpose: starting the engine. >>Once the engine is running, the alternator provides for all the car's >>power requirements. >> Yes, batteries are also used to power accessories when the car is >> off, but the >>only reason they're there in the first place is to crank the starter. >> > > > > See the above link. See the phrase "IN THE FIRST PLACE" in my above paragraph. Of the four uses Darden lists for the battery, I've already noted the first and fourth above... for the second ("filter and stabilize") it can only do so much - there's still ripple in the voltage measured even with the battery, as the charging voltage is usually well above the battery's voltage... as for the third, if the battery is really needing to "provide extra power" while running, then the charging system is under-rated to begin with, and the battery is acting as a band-aid. |
Re: Battery cable came off!
Tegger wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in > news:ovefh.470560$R63.142904@pd7urf1no: > > >>sharx333 wrote: >> >>>Hi, was checking my '95 Civic 1.6L today. It was idling, and I heard >>>the idle sound change: it seemed higher. I stepped on the gas a bit, >>>and I heard a soft electrical "pop" near the stereo panel. I >>>hurriedly shut down the engine, I found that the negative battery >>>cable had come off! (It had a quick-release connection). I connected >>>it, restarted and found everything working fine, even checked all the >>>stereo functions, LEDs, and the ECU. >>> >>>I've read that the battery acts as a big capacitor to smooth out >>>voltage spikes. The entire episode didn't take more that 10 seconds, >>>but I'm worried... could there be any permanent damage? >> >>You read wrong. The battery reacts too slowly to absorb spikes, it >>lives at 12V versus your alternator's typical 13.5-14.5V, your >>alternator wouldn't produce a spike unless it failed spectacularly, >>and having the terminal come off wouldn't cause a spike either. > > > > > It absolutely would. Damage may not always occur, but there will be spikes. Fair enough - a SIGNIFICANT spike. > The battery's secondary function IS to provide a buffer for the > alternator's pulses. And pray, how does it do that? It's not a voltage regulator, it's not a capacitor. Internal resistance limits how quickly it can react to voltage changes. > Connecting the cables together without the battery in > between is dangerous to the car and should NOT be done. You mean the battery cables? Yeah, that'll fry your alternator in a hurry, since you're basically shorting its output. > You could to that n 1976, but not now. I wouldn't even try it in a '76. > http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq2.htm > > > >>Ultimately, cars have batteries for one purpose: starting the engine. >>Once the engine is running, the alternator provides for all the car's >>power requirements. >> Yes, batteries are also used to power accessories when the car is >> off, but the >>only reason they're there in the first place is to crank the starter. >> > > > > See the above link. See the phrase "IN THE FIRST PLACE" in my above paragraph. Of the four uses Darden lists for the battery, I've already noted the first and fourth above... for the second ("filter and stabilize") it can only do so much - there's still ripple in the voltage measured even with the battery, as the charging voltage is usually well above the battery's voltage... as for the third, if the battery is really needing to "provide extra power" while running, then the charging system is under-rated to begin with, and the battery is acting as a band-aid. |
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