"TeGGeR®" (tegger@tegger.c0m) writes:
> "Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:xgd6f.65$A63.43@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink. net:
>
>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>>> cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in
>>> > No... NO.... N O ! ! ! ! DO NOT REMOVE THE FORK! Unless you are
>>> > 100% sure that the bolt which goes through the rubber bushing on
>>> > the lower control arm is NOT SEIZED... do not touch it! And I mean
>>> > 100% sure! In North America where it snows, that bolt will be
>>> > seized. You don't want to twist off the head of the bolt.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That's interesting. I just replaced all the bushings (and I do mean
>>> all)
>> in
>>> the rear suspension of my '91 Integra. I live in Canada. All but five
>> bolts
>>> came off with hand-tools. One bolt needed to be cut off. The other
>>> four succumbed to the violence of a machine shop's air wrench.
>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/old-bushings/
>>
>> I sheared the heads off two of the three bolts on my 91 Civic's left
>> rear lower control arm last year. Like M.A. Stewart implies, they were
>> thoroughly seized to the rubber bushings etc. This despite soaking in
>> PB Blaster for a day or more.
>
>
>
> I did that too. I used Kroil on one side, and PB on the other. Neither
> seems to have made much difference.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...s/P7220908.JPG
>
>
>
>>
>> For my amateur set of tools, removing the remains of the two bolts
>> that had seized was incredibly laborious.
>>
>> The archives have a lot on this.
>
>
> I remember.
>
>
>
>>
>> My Civic was not garaged for the first five years of its life and was
>> driven in the Northern U.S. for ten years.
>>
>> Has your Integra (year?)
>
>
>
> 1991. 252,770 miles as of today.
>
>
>
>> been garaged its whole life? I realize you
>> drive in Northern winters.
>
>
>
> I drive on Southern Ontario roads. These are just like Michigan or
> Wisconsin. The car has never seen the inside of a garage.
>
> It has, however, been drippy-rustproofed every year since new. This
> accounts for the absolute lack of rust on any fastener except the two outer
> ones on the lower arms, and the outer ones on the upper arms. Five of those
> six gave me trouble. Nothing else did.
>
> The problem is that the outer bolts on the front are just like the outer
> ones on the rear, and I suspect they will not let go for me. They are smack
> in the middle of the salt and water spray, which erases any attempt at
> lubrication.
>
>
>
>>
>>> I'm going to be doing the fronts next year. I was just going to saw
>>> the bolts and sleeves apart on either side of the bushing if they
>>> wouldn't
>> come
>>> loose.
>>
>> What kind of saw?
>

If by hacksaw... use quality blades.

>
>
> I was wondering about that. I don't know how hard the sleeves are, which
> will be what makes the difference.

Do you have any of the old sleeves around from your rear end job? Slap them
in a vice and saw away to see how they cut.

> There's room for a hacksaw in between
> the flanges, but I don't know about a reciprocating saw (Sawzall). Would a
> reciprocating saw risk too much damage to surrounding components?
>
>
>
>>
>> For the rears, seems like it's a torch cutting job, to me.
>
>
>
> The machine shop that cut the one bolt out for me appears to have used a
> torch or a cutting wheel. They bent up the flange on the trailing arm and
> knocked the nut off, so I had to replace bolt and nut with a 10.9 set.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...-lower-arm.jpg
>
>
>
>>
>> I won't do the other side of my Civic without a torch or equivalent
>> alternative.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Once bitten, twice shy, eh?
>
>
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

"TeGGeR®" (tegger@tegger.c0m) writes:
> "Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:xgd6f.65$A63.43@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink. net:
>
>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>>> cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart) wrote in
>>> > No... NO.... N O ! ! ! ! DO NOT REMOVE THE FORK! Unless you are
>>> > 100% sure that the bolt which goes through the rubber bushing on
>>> > the lower control arm is NOT SEIZED... do not touch it! And I mean
>>> > 100% sure! In North America where it snows, that bolt will be
>>> > seized. You don't want to twist off the head of the bolt.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That's interesting. I just replaced all the bushings (and I do mean
>>> all)
>> in
>>> the rear suspension of my '91 Integra. I live in Canada. All but five
>> bolts
>>> came off with hand-tools. One bolt needed to be cut off. The other
>>> four succumbed to the violence of a machine shop's air wrench.
>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/old-bushings/
>>
>> I sheared the heads off two of the three bolts on my 91 Civic's left
>> rear lower control arm last year. Like M.A. Stewart implies, they were
>> thoroughly seized to the rubber bushings etc. This despite soaking in
>> PB Blaster for a day or more.
>
>
>
> I did that too. I used Kroil on one side, and PB on the other. Neither
> seems to have made much difference.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...s/P7220908.JPG
>
>
>
>>
>> For my amateur set of tools, removing the remains of the two bolts
>> that had seized was incredibly laborious.
>>
>> The archives have a lot on this.
>
>
> I remember.
>
>
>
>>
>> My Civic was not garaged for the first five years of its life and was
>> driven in the Northern U.S. for ten years.
>>
>> Has your Integra (year?)
>
>
>
> 1991. 252,770 miles as of today.
>
>
>
>> been garaged its whole life? I realize you
>> drive in Northern winters.
>
>
>
> I drive on Southern Ontario roads. These are just like Michigan or
> Wisconsin. The car has never seen the inside of a garage.
>
> It has, however, been drippy-rustproofed every year since new. This
> accounts for the absolute lack of rust on any fastener except the two outer
> ones on the lower arms, and the outer ones on the upper arms. Five of those
> six gave me trouble. Nothing else did.
>
> The problem is that the outer bolts on the front are just like the outer
> ones on the rear, and I suspect they will not let go for me. They are smack
> in the middle of the salt and water spray, which erases any attempt at
> lubrication.
>
>
>
>>
>>> I'm going to be doing the fronts next year. I was just going to saw
>>> the bolts and sleeves apart on either side of the bushing if they
>>> wouldn't
>> come
>>> loose.
>>
>> What kind of saw?
>

If by hacksaw... use quality blades.

>
>
> I was wondering about that. I don't know how hard the sleeves are, which
> will be what makes the difference.

Do you have any of the old sleeves around from your rear end job? Slap them
in a vice and saw away to see how they cut.

> There's room for a hacksaw in between
> the flanges, but I don't know about a reciprocating saw (Sawzall). Would a
> reciprocating saw risk too much damage to surrounding components?
>
>
>
>>
>> For the rears, seems like it's a torch cutting job, to me.
>
>
>
> The machine shop that cut the one bolt out for me appears to have used a
> torch or a cutting wheel. They bent up the flange on the trailing arm and
> knocked the nut off, so I had to replace bolt and nut with a 10.9 set.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...-lower-arm.jpg
>
>
>
>>
>> I won't do the other side of my Civic without a torch or equivalent
>> alternative.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Once bitten, twice shy, eh?
>
>
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

jim beam (nospam@example.net) writes:
> M.A. Stewart wrote:
>> "glenn" (lunaqua@gmail.com) writes:
>>
>>>Hi. I'm caught in the old bind of being too poor to get a car that doesn't
>>>need constant repairs, because my only car needs constant repairs, thus
>>>keeping me too poor to get a car that... you know.
>>>
>>>Anyway, my '86 Honda Accord DX (manual trans, 155000 miles) might get me
>>>another year's service if I can just get the CV joints fixed, which I will
>>>be attempting this week. Got rebuilt axles on eBay (great price, no core
>>>bother, but always a gamble, of course) and plan to put them in myself in a
>>>few days, and wanted to ask if anyone has specific advice on the job.
>>>
>>>I've read all the horror stories on the web, most to do with rust-welded
>>>spindle nuts, which I don't think will be a factor as I don't live in the
>>>mid-west (the 'rust belt'). The job is fairly simple, composed of the steps:
>>>
>>>. loosen wheel lug nuts, raise on jack stands, remove spindle nut.
>>> I plan to use WD-40 or some other penetrating oil on the spindle
>>> nut to help, locking the wheel with a pry bar while using a breaker
>>> bar (with pipe extension if necessary) to loosen the spindle nut,
>>> but would appreciate any tips anyone has; (or if your own experience
>>> tells you I shouldn't be attempting this, let me know too).
>>>
>>
>>
>> Loosen spindle nut FIRST (wheels on the ground, tranny in first gear,
>> parking brake on). Chisel back the locking tab on the nut before loosening
>> the nut. If the shafts are original, you should be able to loosen it with
>> a 2 foot cheater pipe on your breaker bar. If some clown had the shafts
>> out before and used an impact wrench to put the spindle nut back on, it
>> may be over torqued. If that is the case, you will need a 5 foot cheater
>> pipe on your breaker bar. Remember... with a big enough lever and a sturdy
>> fulcrum, you too can move the Earth!
>>
>> Loosen the nut so it is flush with the end of the shaft. Bang on it a bit
>> with a hammer (steel hammer) to get the shaft moving out of the hub a
>> little bit. Look close between bangs to see if the shaft is moving inward
>> toward the car. Now jack up the car and remove the wheels etc..
>
> /never/ use a steel hammer on bearings!!!
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>. drain tranny oil. Only question I have here is that it takes a
>>>square-drive
>>> wrench - does anyone know offhand what the size is?
>>>
>>
>>
>> The square end of a socket extension fits nice and does the job. I forget
>> if it is the 3/8 inch or the 1/2 inch extension that fits.
>>
>>
>>
>>>. remove damper fork.
>>
>>
>> No... NO.... N O ! ! ! ! DO NOT REMOVE THE FORK! Unless you are 100% sure
>> that the bolt which goes through the rubber bushing on the lower control
>> arm is NOT SEIZED... do not touch it! And I mean 100% sure! In North
>> America where it snows, that bolt will be seized. You don't want to twist
>> off the head of the bolt. The inner joint is always disassembled, and the
>> shaft (minus the needle bearings) is puzzled through the fork. It is a
>> little messy, and a pain in the ***, but it is MUCH easier (and CHEAPER)
>> than cutting out the lower control arms with a torch and buying new lower
>> control arms!
>
> well, the official way is to remove the fork. i luckily live in
> california and can take the fork off my 89 no problems whatsoever. sure
> makes life easier.
>
> but this is all academic - the op only need pop the lower swivel to have
> enough room to get the driveshaft out.

Not on the 1986/1989 Accord. The inner joint will not fit through fork! The
fork has to be removed (not advised if the bolt is siezed) or the inner
joint disassembled.

>
>>
>> Cleanliness is next to godly. Be careful not to contaminate your inner
>> joint guts with dirt!
>>
>> You will need to get two new inner joint large boot clamps before you
>> start the job. Maybe you were lucky and the CV joint rebuilder put an
>> extra clamp into the box for you!
>>
>>
>>
>>>Question: how difficult? There are 2 bolts - are
>>> they likely to be seized or rusted together?
>>>
>>
>>
>> If the car has been driven in the snow (where salt is used on the road),
>> the lower fork bolt WILL BE SEIZED. DO NOT TOUCH THE BOLT. SEE ABOVE.
>>
>>
>>
>>>. remove knuckle-to-lower arm castle nut, and separate with 2-arm gear
>>> puller. Any problems/tips here I should be aware of?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Don't use the puller. Use a ball joint fork. BUT... BUT... only use ONE
>> TINE of the ball joint fork so that the rubber boot on the ball joint is
>> not damaged. Slip ONE TINE of the fork in between the control arm and the
>> knuckle (not the side closest to the brake rotor, but the other side which
>> is close to the engine). Loosen the castle nut, do not remove it yet.
>> Whack your pickle fork and it will pop the tapered ball joint stud out,
>> without damaging the rubber boot. Now remove the castle nut. If you don't
>> have a ball joint fork, a nice big, fat, rampy cold chisel will work just
>> as well in the same manner as above. Don't **** around with a puller.
>
> i completely disagree. what you're suggesting is both bad for the car
> and dangerous for theoperator. use the proper tool. it's not expensive
> and is /way/ safer. not to mention the cost savings of not fixing a
> screwed up swivel or boot.
>

You can use the pickle fork succesfully on the 1986/1989 Accord without
any damage. You can also use a good cold chisel with the same good results.
The puller lugs won't hold well on the lower control arm. Plus you will have
to whack the control arm with a hammer when the puller can't be tightened
any more. Been there on a 3Gee. Don't **** with a puller.

>>
>>
>>>. pull knuckle outward, removing draveshaft outboard joint from knuckle
>>> with a plastic hammer. Q: Can it be stuck to where it just won't come
>>> out? If so, how best to get it out...
>>
>>
>> See above re: now jack up the car. Use a regular steel hammer. It has more
>> weight behind it and the drive shaft steel is really tough. It takes a lot
>> of muscle and some real big time hammering to damage that steel. I've
>> whacked out those shafts and didn't even mark the steel!
>
> then you weren't hitting very hard and got real lucky. when those
> things get damaged, they get /real/ expensive, not to mention very
> inconvenient.

No luck. Just common sense that worked.

>
>>
>>
>>
>>>. pry out the inboard driveshaft assembly with a screwdriver (forcing inner
>>> set ring past inner groove in differential); Q: Does it always just 'pop
>>> right out'? I'd hate to get stuck at this point!
>>
>>
>> If you have gotten this far, that will be a piece of cake. This is the
>> easy part! If your screwdriver has good "purchase" and good leverage
>> (moving the earth again!) it will POP!
>>
>>
>>
>>>On putting in the rebuilt axles, the only thing that worries me is getting
>>>the inner driveshaft assembly, with its new set ring, to properly seat
>>>within the differential. Has anyone experience special problems with this
>>>task?
>>
>>
>> A rag, a two by four, and your hammer will knock the suckers right in! Put
>> the rag between the rubber boot and the two by four then knock it in with
>> the hammer. You will feel it seat.
>
> no!!! /never/ hammer them in. they should pop in with hand pressure.
> if they don't, they're not seated right. sometimes a little grease on
> the retaining ring helps keep it centered so it goes in first time.
> hammering brinells the d/s bearings and the diff bearings. don't do it.
>

In a nice garage with a hoist, sure hand pressure works. But in a lousy garage
and akward conditions, carefull common sense and lumber (soft wood) makes
things easier. I always use grease on the clip, the spline, and the groove
in the seal.

I rebuilt a transmission once. Talk about brinelling!

>
>>
>> M.A. Stewart (don't email cf005... sorry...elm filter bounces all incoming
>> email!)
>>
>>
>>
>>>I guess what I'm looking for is a lot of people to say, Hey - it'll be a
>>>breeze - you can do it! If I could afford to have my car towed, I would dive
>>>right in and just do it, but I'm really on the edge right now, so just
>>>maximizing my chances of getting these rebuilds in with as few problems as
>>>possible
>>>
>>>Any help/tips/sharing-of-experiences greatly appreciated.
>>>-ed
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

 

jim beam (nospam@example.net) writes:
> M.A. Stewart wrote:
>> "glenn" (lunaqua@gmail.com) writes:
>>
>>>Hi. I'm caught in the old bind of being too poor to get a car that doesn't
>>>need constant repairs, because my only car needs constant repairs, thus
>>>keeping me too poor to get a car that... you know.
>>>
>>>Anyway, my '86 Honda Accord DX (manual trans, 155000 miles) might get me
>>>another year's service if I can just get the CV joints fixed, which I will
>>>be attempting this week. Got rebuilt axles on eBay (great price, no core
>>>bother, but always a gamble, of course) and plan to put them in myself in a
>>>few days, and wanted to ask if anyone has specific advice on the job.
>>>
>>>I've read all the horror stories on the web, most to do with rust-welded
>>>spindle nuts, which I don't think will be a factor as I don't live in the
>>>mid-west (the 'rust belt'). The job is fairly simple, composed of the steps:
>>>
>>>. loosen wheel lug nuts, raise on jack stands, remove spindle nut.
>>> I plan to use WD-40 or some other penetrating oil on the spindle
>>> nut to help, locking the wheel with a pry bar while using a breaker
>>> bar (with pipe extension if necessary) to loosen the spindle nut,
>>> but would appreciate any tips anyone has; (or if your own experience
>>> tells you I shouldn't be attempting this, let me know too).
>>>
>>
>>
>> Loosen spindle nut FIRST (wheels on the ground, tranny in first gear,
>> parking brake on). Chisel back the locking tab on the nut before loosening
>> the nut. If the shafts are original, you should be able to loosen it with
>> a 2 foot cheater pipe on your breaker bar. If some clown had the shafts
>> out before and used an impact wrench to put the spindle nut back on, it
>> may be over torqued. If that is the case, you will need a 5 foot cheater
>> pipe on your breaker bar. Remember... with a big enough lever and a sturdy
>> fulcrum, you too can move the Earth!
>>
>> Loosen the nut so it is flush with the end of the shaft. Bang on it a bit
>> with a hammer (steel hammer) to get the shaft moving out of the hub a
>> little bit. Look close between bangs to see if the shaft is moving inward
>> toward the car. Now jack up the car and remove the wheels etc..
>
> /never/ use a steel hammer on bearings!!!
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>. drain tranny oil. Only question I have here is that it takes a
>>>square-drive
>>> wrench - does anyone know offhand what the size is?
>>>
>>
>>
>> The square end of a socket extension fits nice and does the job. I forget
>> if it is the 3/8 inch or the 1/2 inch extension that fits.
>>
>>
>>
>>>. remove damper fork.
>>
>>
>> No... NO.... N O ! ! ! ! DO NOT REMOVE THE FORK! Unless you are 100% sure
>> that the bolt which goes through the rubber bushing on the lower control
>> arm is NOT SEIZED... do not touch it! And I mean 100% sure! In North
>> America where it snows, that bolt will be seized. You don't want to twist
>> off the head of the bolt. The inner joint is always disassembled, and the
>> shaft (minus the needle bearings) is puzzled through the fork. It is a
>> little messy, and a pain in the ***, but it is MUCH easier (and CHEAPER)
>> than cutting out the lower control arms with a torch and buying new lower
>> control arms!
>
> well, the official way is to remove the fork. i luckily live in
> california and can take the fork off my 89 no problems whatsoever. sure
> makes life easier.
>
> but this is all academic - the op only need pop the lower swivel to have
> enough room to get the driveshaft out.

Not on the 1986/1989 Accord. The inner joint will not fit through fork! The
fork has to be removed (not advised if the bolt is siezed) or the inner
joint disassembled.

>
>>
>> Cleanliness is next to godly. Be careful not to contaminate your inner
>> joint guts with dirt!
>>
>> You will need to get two new inner joint large boot clamps before you
>> start the job. Maybe you were lucky and the CV joint rebuilder put an
>> extra clamp into the box for you!
>>
>>
>>
>>>Question: how difficult? There are 2 bolts - are
>>> they likely to be seized or rusted together?
>>>
>>
>>
>> If the car has been driven in the snow (where salt is used on the road),
>> the lower fork bolt WILL BE SEIZED. DO NOT TOUCH THE BOLT. SEE ABOVE.
>>
>>
>>
>>>. remove knuckle-to-lower arm castle nut, and separate with 2-arm gear
>>> puller. Any problems/tips here I should be aware of?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Don't use the puller. Use a ball joint fork. BUT... BUT... only use ONE
>> TINE of the ball joint fork so that the rubber boot on the ball joint is
>> not damaged. Slip ONE TINE of the fork in between the control arm and the
>> knuckle (not the side closest to the brake rotor, but the other side which
>> is close to the engine). Loosen the castle nut, do not remove it yet.
>> Whack your pickle fork and it will pop the tapered ball joint stud out,
>> without damaging the rubber boot. Now remove the castle nut. If you don't
>> have a ball joint fork, a nice big, fat, rampy cold chisel will work just
>> as well in the same manner as above. Don't **** around with a puller.
>
> i completely disagree. what you're suggesting is both bad for the car
> and dangerous for theoperator. use the proper tool. it's not expensive
> and is /way/ safer. not to mention the cost savings of not fixing a
> screwed up swivel or boot.
>

You can use the pickle fork succesfully on the 1986/1989 Accord without
any damage. You can also use a good cold chisel with the same good results.
The puller lugs won't hold well on the lower control arm. Plus you will have
to whack the control arm with a hammer when the puller can't be tightened
any more. Been there on a 3Gee. Don't **** with a puller.

>>
>>
>>>. pull knuckle outward, removing draveshaft outboard joint from knuckle
>>> with a plastic hammer. Q: Can it be stuck to where it just won't come
>>> out? If so, how best to get it out...
>>
>>
>> See above re: now jack up the car. Use a regular steel hammer. It has more
>> weight behind it and the drive shaft steel is really tough. It takes a lot
>> of muscle and some real big time hammering to damage that steel. I've
>> whacked out those shafts and didn't even mark the steel!
>
> then you weren't hitting very hard and got real lucky. when those
> things get damaged, they get /real/ expensive, not to mention very
> inconvenient.

No luck. Just common sense that worked.

>
>>
>>
>>
>>>. pry out the inboard driveshaft assembly with a screwdriver (forcing inner
>>> set ring past inner groove in differential); Q: Does it always just 'pop
>>> right out'? I'd hate to get stuck at this point!
>>
>>
>> If you have gotten this far, that will be a piece of cake. This is the
>> easy part! If your screwdriver has good "purchase" and good leverage
>> (moving the earth again!) it will POP!
>>
>>
>>
>>>On putting in the rebuilt axles, the only thing that worries me is getting
>>>the inner driveshaft assembly, with its new set ring, to properly seat
>>>within the differential. Has anyone experience special problems with this
>>>task?
>>
>>
>> A rag, a two by four, and your hammer will knock the suckers right in! Put
>> the rag between the rubber boot and the two by four then knock it in with
>> the hammer. You will feel it seat.
>
> no!!! /never/ hammer them in. they should pop in with hand pressure.
> if they don't, they're not seated right. sometimes a little grease on
> the retaining ring helps keep it centered so it goes in first time.
> hammering brinells the d/s bearings and the diff bearings. don't do it.
>

In a nice garage with a hoist, sure hand pressure works. But in a lousy garage
and akward conditions, carefull common sense and lumber (soft wood) makes
things easier. I always use grease on the clip, the spline, and the groove
in the seal.

I rebuilt a transmission once. Talk about brinelling!

>
>>
>> M.A. Stewart (don't email cf005... sorry...elm filter bounces all incoming
>> email!)
>>
>>
>>
>>>I guess what I'm looking for is a lot of people to say, Hey - it'll be a
>>>breeze - you can do it! If I could afford to have my car towed, I would dive
>>>right in and just do it, but I'm really on the edge right now, so just
>>>maximizing my chances of getting these rebuilds in with as few problems as
>>>possible
>>>
>>>Any help/tips/sharing-of-experiences greatly appreciated.
>>>-ed
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

 

"M.A. Stewart" <cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message news:djbl0k$p5$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...

> Don't use the puller. Use a ball joint fork. BUT... BUT... only use ONE
> TINE of the ball joint fork so that the rubber boot on the ball joint is
> not damaged. Slip ONE TINE of the fork in between the control arm and the
> knuckle (not the side closest to the brake rotor, but the other side which
> is close to the engine). Loosen the castle nut, do not remove it yet.
> Whack your pickle fork and it will pop the tapered ball joint stud out,
> without damaging the rubber boot. Now remove the castle nut. If you don't
> have a ball joint fork, a nice big, fat, rampy cold chisel will work just
> as well in the same manner as above. Don't **** around with a puller.

The California 86-89 Accord, 88-91 doesn't require a puller. I've done
several jobs using a 10, 12, 14, 17mm, one other socket and a 17mm
wrench. Either California is good to Hondas or what. Several tips
I might add:

Make sure the axel seats on the transmission or risk being stranded.
This is an easy procedure only learned form experience since no
hammering is allowed.

No fluid draining is required if jacked in a certain positon.

 

"M.A. Stewart" <cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message news:djbl0k$p5$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...

> Don't use the puller. Use a ball joint fork. BUT... BUT... only use ONE
> TINE of the ball joint fork so that the rubber boot on the ball joint is
> not damaged. Slip ONE TINE of the fork in between the control arm and the
> knuckle (not the side closest to the brake rotor, but the other side which
> is close to the engine). Loosen the castle nut, do not remove it yet.
> Whack your pickle fork and it will pop the tapered ball joint stud out,
> without damaging the rubber boot. Now remove the castle nut. If you don't
> have a ball joint fork, a nice big, fat, rampy cold chisel will work just
> as well in the same manner as above. Don't **** around with a puller.

The California 86-89 Accord, 88-91 doesn't require a puller. I've done
several jobs using a 10, 12, 14, 17mm, one other socket and a 17mm
wrench. Either California is good to Hondas or what. Several tips
I might add:

Make sure the axel seats on the transmission or risk being stranded.
This is an easy procedure only learned form experience since no
hammering is allowed.

No fluid draining is required if jacked in a certain positon.

 

"glenn" <lunaqua@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0715f.3717$BZ5.1523@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
> Hi. I'm caught in the old bind of being too poor to get a car that doesn't
> need constant repairs, because my only car needs constant repairs, thus
> keeping me too poor to get a car that... you know.
>
> Anyway, my '86 Honda Accord DX (manual trans, 155000 miles) might get me
> another year's service if I can just get the CV joints fixed, which I will
> be attempting this week. Got rebuilt axles on eBay (great price, no core
> bother, but always a gamble, of course) and plan to put them in myself in
> a few days, and wanted to ask if anyone has specific advice on the job.
>
> I've read all the horror stories on the web, most to do with rust-welded
> spindle nuts, which I don't think will be a factor as I don't live in the
> mid-west (the 'rust belt'). The job is fairly simple, composed of the
> steps:
>
> . loosen wheel lug nuts, raise on jack stands, remove spindle nut.
> I plan to use WD-40 or some other penetrating oil on the spindle
> nut to help, locking the wheel with a pry bar while using a breaker
> bar (with pipe extension if necessary) to loosen the spindle nut,
> but would appreciate any tips anyone has; (or if your own experience
> tells you I shouldn't be attempting this, let me know too).
>
> . drain tranny oil. Only question I have here is that it takes a
> square-drive
> wrench - does anyone know offhand what the size is?
>
> . remove damper fork. Question: how difficult? There are 2 bolts - are
> they likely to be seized or rusted together?
>
> . remove knuckle-to-lower arm castle nut, and separate with 2-arm gear
> puller. Any problems/tips here I should be aware of?
>
> . pull knuckle outward, removing draveshaft outboard joint from knuckle
> with a plastic hammer. Q: Can it be stuck to where it just won't come
> out? If so, how best to get it out...
>
> . pry out the inboard driveshaft assembly with a screwdriver (forcing
> inner
> set ring past inner groove in differential); Q: Does it always just
> 'pop
> right out'? I'd hate to get stuck at this point!
>
> On putting in the rebuilt axles, the only thing that worries me is getting
> the inner driveshaft assembly, with its new set ring, to properly seat
> within the differential. Has anyone experience special problems with this
> task?
>
> I guess what I'm looking for is a lot of people to say, Hey - it'll be a
> breeze - you can do it! If I could afford to have my car towed, I would
> dive right in and just do it, but I'm really on the edge right now, so
> just maximizing my chances of getting these rebuilds in with as few
> problems as possible
>
> Any help/tips/sharing-of-experiences greatly appreciated.
> -ed

Where were all youse guys days ago when I originally posted?? I attempted
the job Friday morning and I think I might have succeeded if I had some of
this input before I dived in. Oh well - here's the scoop:

This talk about taking apart the inner joint sounds completely nuts! I'm
going by the official dealer's manual and Hayne's manual and several other
descriptions of the job found on the web, and they ALL say take out the
fork, separate the lower control arm from the ball joint, and pull the whole
half axle sucker out. I'm not in the rust belt (I'm in Bay Area, CA), so
I've never even heard of such a thing (talk about a pain!).

I had to use a 3' extension on a 1/2" drive socket wrench to break loose the
spindle nuts, but I was successful (that had me worried as I had read horror
stories).

I had no problems whatsover with the fork - came right out. Come to think of
it, I'm glad I did NOT read about the seized lower bolt scenerio - it would
have just upped the anxiety.

Got the blasted cotter pin out of the castle nut on the ball joint after
only 20 minutes of fussing. 30 seconds later had the castle nut off.

Then - A BRICK WALL. Could NOT get anywhere with getting the lower control
arm free of the ball joint. Had a good sized 2-arm gear puller (as
recommended by the manual and elsewhere): tried getting it as tight as I
could (got it VERY tight, in fact, with no luck), and hammering on the bolt
with puller on - all to no avail. Would have used a butane torch to heat
lower arm but couldn't find the nozzle at my place of work so had to just
call it quits and get it all reassembled for the sad drive back home. (Glad
I did not heat it now that I've researched this job more on the web).

Got home and spent HOURS on the web searching for into on getting the lower
control arm free from the ball joint, and found out a few things:

* input from a LOT of people saying the puller tools are all but worthless.
I agree completely.

* the one 'puller' tool most agreed can do the job is a lever-type ball end
remover, a picture of which can be seen here: http://tinyurl.com/9gfaf Of
course, I didn't have one, and have no $ to buy one, so it may as well not
exist for me.

* pounding on an axle end with a steel ANYTHING is complete idiotic
(pounding on a partially unscrewed spindle nut to loosen it probably OK, but
one should NEVER pound shaft (or joint housings) with hammer to get shaft
installed in transaxle.

* In reference to getting lower control arm free of ball joint: I came
across several references to the 'ratchet trick' but didn't know what it was
about. Finally tracked it down to one of the best postings I've ever come
across in forum 'how-to' discussion: http://tinyurl.com/72zmg There's even
a movie showing the trick in work. IF ONLY I HAD KNOWN THIS AT THE
TIME!!!!!!! It's close to the suggestion posted originally by M.A. Stewart
about using one tyne of a ball joint fork - I think if I had read that
before my attempt, even though I don't have the fork, I would have thought
to look around for a piece of metal to wedge in there (like a chisel) and
maybe I could have succeeded. But with the ratchet trick, you don't even
need a hammer - just jack up the assy, wedge in the ratchet (or any properly
sized piece of metal), then lower the jack. If the fork is still in, the
spring tension will pop the arm off the ball joint stud; if the fork is out,
just stepping down smartly with your foot on the top of the caliper will pop
it out. (so everyone claims - we'll see soon enough!)

I've read enough not to fear getting the inner end of the shaft free from
the differential, but I might have gotten stuck on getting the outer end of
the shaft out of the hub (if I had gotten past the lower arm problem), but
again, because I'm in CA and not the rust belt, I don't think that will be a
great problem. (probably shouldn't have said that).

I'm way too sore and tired and spent to even think about when I'll next try
this job, but having the 'ratchet trick' to try makes a part of me almost
eager to get back in the fray. Maybe in a few days...

thanks for all responses!

 

"glenn" <lunaqua@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0715f.3717$BZ5.1523@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
> Hi. I'm caught in the old bind of being too poor to get a car that doesn't
> need constant repairs, because my only car needs constant repairs, thus
> keeping me too poor to get a car that... you know.
>
> Anyway, my '86 Honda Accord DX (manual trans, 155000 miles) might get me
> another year's service if I can just get the CV joints fixed, which I will
> be attempting this week. Got rebuilt axles on eBay (great price, no core
> bother, but always a gamble, of course) and plan to put them in myself in
> a few days, and wanted to ask if anyone has specific advice on the job.
>
> I've read all the horror stories on the web, most to do with rust-welded
> spindle nuts, which I don't think will be a factor as I don't live in the
> mid-west (the 'rust belt'). The job is fairly simple, composed of the
> steps:
>
> . loosen wheel lug nuts, raise on jack stands, remove spindle nut.
> I plan to use WD-40 or some other penetrating oil on the spindle
> nut to help, locking the wheel with a pry bar while using a breaker
> bar (with pipe extension if necessary) to loosen the spindle nut,
> but would appreciate any tips anyone has; (or if your own experience
> tells you I shouldn't be attempting this, let me know too).
>
> . drain tranny oil. Only question I have here is that it takes a
> square-drive
> wrench - does anyone know offhand what the size is?
>
> . remove damper fork. Question: how difficult? There are 2 bolts - are
> they likely to be seized or rusted together?
>
> . remove knuckle-to-lower arm castle nut, and separate with 2-arm gear
> puller. Any problems/tips here I should be aware of?
>
> . pull knuckle outward, removing draveshaft outboard joint from knuckle
> with a plastic hammer. Q: Can it be stuck to where it just won't come
> out? If so, how best to get it out...
>
> . pry out the inboard driveshaft assembly with a screwdriver (forcing
> inner
> set ring past inner groove in differential); Q: Does it always just
> 'pop
> right out'? I'd hate to get stuck at this point!
>
> On putting in the rebuilt axles, the only thing that worries me is getting
> the inner driveshaft assembly, with its new set ring, to properly seat
> within the differential. Has anyone experience special problems with this
> task?
>
> I guess what I'm looking for is a lot of people to say, Hey - it'll be a
> breeze - you can do it! If I could afford to have my car towed, I would
> dive right in and just do it, but I'm really on the edge right now, so
> just maximizing my chances of getting these rebuilds in with as few
> problems as possible
>
> Any help/tips/sharing-of-experiences greatly appreciated.
> -ed

Where were all youse guys days ago when I originally posted?? I attempted
the job Friday morning and I think I might have succeeded if I had some of
this input before I dived in. Oh well - here's the scoop:

This talk about taking apart the inner joint sounds completely nuts! I'm
going by the official dealer's manual and Hayne's manual and several other
descriptions of the job found on the web, and they ALL say take out the
fork, separate the lower control arm from the ball joint, and pull the whole
half axle sucker out. I'm not in the rust belt (I'm in Bay Area, CA), so
I've never even heard of such a thing (talk about a pain!).

I had to use a 3' extension on a 1/2" drive socket wrench to break loose the
spindle nuts, but I was successful (that had me worried as I had read horror
stories).

I had no problems whatsover with the fork - came right out. Come to think of
it, I'm glad I did NOT read about the seized lower bolt scenerio - it would
have just upped the anxiety.

Got the blasted cotter pin out of the castle nut on the ball joint after
only 20 minutes of fussing. 30 seconds later had the castle nut off.

Then - A BRICK WALL. Could NOT get anywhere with getting the lower control
arm free of the ball joint. Had a good sized 2-arm gear puller (as
recommended by the manual and elsewhere): tried getting it as tight as I
could (got it VERY tight, in fact, with no luck), and hammering on the bolt
with puller on - all to no avail. Would have used a butane torch to heat
lower arm but couldn't find the nozzle at my place of work so had to just
call it quits and get it all reassembled for the sad drive back home. (Glad
I did not heat it now that I've researched this job more on the web).

Got home and spent HOURS on the web searching for into on getting the lower
control arm free from the ball joint, and found out a few things:

* input from a LOT of people saying the puller tools are all but worthless.
I agree completely.

* the one 'puller' tool most agreed can do the job is a lever-type ball end
remover, a picture of which can be seen here: http://tinyurl.com/9gfaf Of
course, I didn't have one, and have no $ to buy one, so it may as well not
exist for me.

* pounding on an axle end with a steel ANYTHING is complete idiotic
(pounding on a partially unscrewed spindle nut to loosen it probably OK, but
one should NEVER pound shaft (or joint housings) with hammer to get shaft
installed in transaxle.

* In reference to getting lower control arm free of ball joint: I came
across several references to the 'ratchet trick' but didn't know what it was
about. Finally tracked it down to one of the best postings I've ever come
across in forum 'how-to' discussion: http://tinyurl.com/72zmg There's even
a movie showing the trick in work. IF ONLY I HAD KNOWN THIS AT THE
TIME!!!!!!! It's close to the suggestion posted originally by M.A. Stewart
about using one tyne of a ball joint fork - I think if I had read that
before my attempt, even though I don't have the fork, I would have thought
to look around for a piece of metal to wedge in there (like a chisel) and
maybe I could have succeeded. But with the ratchet trick, you don't even
need a hammer - just jack up the assy, wedge in the ratchet (or any properly
sized piece of metal), then lower the jack. If the fork is still in, the
spring tension will pop the arm off the ball joint stud; if the fork is out,
just stepping down smartly with your foot on the top of the caliper will pop
it out. (so everyone claims - we'll see soon enough!)

I've read enough not to fear getting the inner end of the shaft free from
the differential, but I might have gotten stuck on getting the outer end of
the shaft out of the hub (if I had gotten past the lower arm problem), but
again, because I'm in CA and not the rust belt, I don't think that will be a
great problem. (probably shouldn't have said that).

I'm way too sore and tired and spent to even think about when I'll next try
this job, but having the 'ratchet trick' to try makes a part of me almost
eager to get back in the fray. Maybe in a few days...

thanks for all responses!

 

"Burt S." <BurtSquareman@none.com> wrote in message
news:ibo6f.3244$dO2.283@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net ...
> "M.A. Stewart" <cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
> news:djbl0k$p5$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
>
>> Don't use the puller. Use a ball joint fork. BUT... BUT... only use ONE
>> TINE of the ball joint fork so that the rubber boot on the ball joint is
>> not damaged. Slip ONE TINE of the fork in between the control arm and the
>> knuckle (not the side closest to the brake rotor, but the other side
>> which
>> is close to the engine). Loosen the castle nut, do not remove it yet.
>> Whack your pickle fork and it will pop the tapered ball joint stud out,
>> without damaging the rubber boot. Now remove the castle nut. If you don't
>> have a ball joint fork, a nice big, fat, rampy cold chisel will work just
>> as well in the same manner as above. Don't **** around with a puller.
>
> The California 86-89 Accord, 88-91 doesn't require a puller. I've done
> several jobs using a 10, 12, 14, 17mm, one other socket and a 17mm
> wrench. Either California is good to Hondas or what.

I have utterly no idea what you're talking about here, with the 10, 12, 14,
etc sockets!

> Several tips I might add:
>
> Make sure the axel seats on the transmission or risk being stranded.
> This is an easy procedure only learned form experience since no
> hammering is allowed.
>
> No fluid draining is required if jacked in a certain positon.

I'm hoping you're right about the fluid - like a ninny I had followed
directions and drained my tranny before I had determined whether I could get
though the crucial steps. When I got stuck, I had no choice but to put all
my new gear oil (~$20) in, thinking I'd have to re-drain and save it when I
got around to trying the job again.

When you say 'in a certain position' - I'm thinking if I just jack up one
side of the car at a time and do that side's axle, there will be enough tilt
in the transaxle that no oil will leak out the axle hole? I guess even if
some does leak out, it won't be much this way, and easy to top off after job
done.

thanks for you input.

 

"Burt S." <BurtSquareman@none.com> wrote in message
news:ibo6f.3244$dO2.283@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net ...
> "M.A. Stewart" <cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
> news:djbl0k$p5$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
>
>> Don't use the puller. Use a ball joint fork. BUT... BUT... only use ONE
>> TINE of the ball joint fork so that the rubber boot on the ball joint is
>> not damaged. Slip ONE TINE of the fork in between the control arm and the
>> knuckle (not the side closest to the brake rotor, but the other side
>> which
>> is close to the engine). Loosen the castle nut, do not remove it yet.
>> Whack your pickle fork and it will pop the tapered ball joint stud out,
>> without damaging the rubber boot. Now remove the castle nut. If you don't
>> have a ball joint fork, a nice big, fat, rampy cold chisel will work just
>> as well in the same manner as above. Don't **** around with a puller.
>
> The California 86-89 Accord, 88-91 doesn't require a puller. I've done
> several jobs using a 10, 12, 14, 17mm, one other socket and a 17mm
> wrench. Either California is good to Hondas or what.

I have utterly no idea what you're talking about here, with the 10, 12, 14,
etc sockets!

> Several tips I might add:
>
> Make sure the axel seats on the transmission or risk being stranded.
> This is an easy procedure only learned form experience since no
> hammering is allowed.
>
> No fluid draining is required if jacked in a certain positon.

I'm hoping you're right about the fluid - like a ninny I had followed
directions and drained my tranny before I had determined whether I could get
though the crucial steps. When I got stuck, I had no choice but to put all
my new gear oil (~$20) in, thinking I'd have to re-drain and save it when I
got around to trying the job again.

When you say 'in a certain position' - I'm thinking if I just jack up one
side of the car at a time and do that side's axle, there will be enough tilt
in the transaxle that no oil will leak out the axle hole? I guess even if
some does leak out, it won't be much this way, and easy to top off after job
done.

thanks for you input.

 

M.A. Stewart wrote:
> jim beam (nospam@example.net) writes:
>
>>M.A. Stewart wrote:
>>
>>>"glenn" (lunaqua@gmail.com) writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi. I'm caught in the old bind of being too poor to get a car that doesn't
>>>>need constant repairs, because my only car needs constant repairs, thus
>>>>keeping me too poor to get a car that... you know.
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, my '86 Honda Accord DX (manual trans, 155000 miles) might get me
>>>>another year's service if I can just get the CV joints fixed, which I will
>>>>be attempting this week. Got rebuilt axles on eBay (great price, no core
>>>>bother, but always a gamble, of course) and plan to put them in myself in a
>>>>few days, and wanted to ask if anyone has specific advice on the job.
>>>>
>>>>I've read all the horror stories on the web, most to do with rust-welded
>>>>spindle nuts, which I don't think will be a factor as I don't live in the
>>>>mid-west (the 'rust belt'). The job is fairly simple, composed of the steps:
>>>>
>>>>. loosen wheel lug nuts, raise on jack stands, remove spindle nut.
>>>> I plan to use WD-40 or some other penetrating oil on the spindle
>>>> nut to help, locking the wheel with a pry bar while using a breaker
>>>> bar (with pipe extension if necessary) to loosen the spindle nut,
>>>> but would appreciate any tips anyone has; (or if your own experience
>>>> tells you I shouldn't be attempting this, let me know too).
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Loosen spindle nut FIRST (wheels on the ground, tranny in first gear,
>>>parking brake on). Chisel back the locking tab on the nut before loosening
>>>the nut. If the shafts are original, you should be able to loosen it with
>>>a 2 foot cheater pipe on your breaker bar. If some clown had the shafts
>>>out before and used an impact wrench to put the spindle nut back on, it
>>>may be over torqued. If that is the case, you will need a 5 foot cheater
>>>pipe on your breaker bar. Remember... with a big enough lever and a sturdy
>>>fulcrum, you too can move the Earth!
>>>
>>>Loosen the nut so it is flush with the end of the shaft. Bang on it a bit
>>>with a hammer (steel hammer) to get the shaft moving out of the hub a
>>>little bit. Look close between bangs to see if the shaft is moving inward
>>>toward the car. Now jack up the car and remove the wheels etc..
>>
>>/never/ use a steel hammer on bearings!!!
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>. drain tranny oil. Only question I have here is that it takes a
>>>>square-drive
>>>> wrench - does anyone know offhand what the size is?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The square end of a socket extension fits nice and does the job. I forget
>>>if it is the 3/8 inch or the 1/2 inch extension that fits.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>. remove damper fork.
>>>
>>>
>>>No... NO.... N O ! ! ! ! DO NOT REMOVE THE FORK! Unless you are 100% sure
>>>that the bolt which goes through the rubber bushing on the lower control
>>>arm is NOT SEIZED... do not touch it! And I mean 100% sure! In North
>>>America where it snows, that bolt will be seized. You don't want to twist
>>>off the head of the bolt. The inner joint is always disassembled, and the
>>>shaft (minus the needle bearings) is puzzled through the fork. It is a
>>>little messy, and a pain in the ***, but it is MUCH easier (and CHEAPER)
>>>than cutting out the lower control arms with a torch and buying new lower
>>>control arms!
>>
>>well, the official way is to remove the fork. i luckily live in
>>california and can take the fork off my 89 no problems whatsoever. sure
>>makes life easier.
>>
>>but this is all academic - the op only need pop the lower swivel to have
>>enough room to get the driveshaft out.
>
>
> Not on the 1986/1989 Accord. The inner joint will not fit through fork! The
> fork has to be removed (not advised if the bolt is siezed) or the inner
> joint disassembled.

i'm not talking completely about removing the axle, just getting
sufficient clearance to pop the ends frm the diff.

>
>
>>>Cleanliness is next to godly. Be careful not to contaminate your inner
>>>joint guts with dirt!
>>>
>>>You will need to get two new inner joint large boot clamps before you
>>>start the job. Maybe you were lucky and the CV joint rebuilder put an
>>>extra clamp into the box for you!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Question: how difficult? There are 2 bolts - are
>>>> they likely to be seized or rusted together?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>If the car has been driven in the snow (where salt is used on the road),
>>>the lower fork bolt WILL BE SEIZED. DO NOT TOUCH THE BOLT. SEE ABOVE.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>. remove knuckle-to-lower arm castle nut, and separate with 2-arm gear
>>>> puller. Any problems/tips here I should be aware of?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Don't use the puller. Use a ball joint fork. BUT... BUT... only use ONE
>>>TINE of the ball joint fork so that the rubber boot on the ball joint is
>>>not damaged. Slip ONE TINE of the fork in between the control arm and the
>>>knuckle (not the side closest to the brake rotor, but the other side which
>>>is close to the engine). Loosen the castle nut, do not remove it yet.
>>>Whack your pickle fork and it will pop the tapered ball joint stud out,
>>>without damaging the rubber boot. Now remove the castle nut. If you don't
>>>have a ball joint fork, a nice big, fat, rampy cold chisel will work just
>>>as well in the same manner as above. Don't **** around with a puller.
>>
>>i completely disagree. what you're suggesting is both bad for the car
>>and dangerous for theoperator. use the proper tool. it's not expensive
>>and is /way/ safer. not to mention the cost savings of not fixing a
>>screwed up swivel or boot.
>>
>
>
> You can use the pickle fork succesfully on the 1986/1989 Accord without
> any damage. You can also use a good cold chisel with the same good results.
> The puller lugs won't hold well on the lower control arm. Plus you will have
> to whack the control arm with a hammer when the puller can't be tightened
> any more. Been there on a 3Gee. Don't **** with a puller.

then you weren't using the correct tool!

>
>
>>>
>>>>. pull knuckle outward, removing draveshaft outboard joint from knuckle
>>>> with a plastic hammer. Q: Can it be stuck to where it just won't come
>>>> out? If so, how best to get it out...
>>>
>>>
>>>See above re: now jack up the car. Use a regular steel hammer. It has more
>>>weight behind it and the drive shaft steel is really tough. It takes a lot
>>>of muscle and some real big time hammering to damage that steel. I've
>>>whacked out those shafts and didn't even mark the steel!
>>
>>then you weren't hitting very hard and got real lucky. when those
>>things get damaged, they get /real/ expensive, not to mention very
>>inconvenient.
>
>
> No luck. Just common sense that worked.

dude, you've clearly never worked on many siezed joints. if you had,
you'd know that the correct tool has the job done in 2 minutes, and that
a fudge like you describe can take hours, not counting repair of damaged
parts and personal injury. $60 for the right tool is /so/ cheap.

>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>>. pry out the inboard driveshaft assembly with a screwdriver (forcing inner
>>>> set ring past inner groove in differential); Q: Does it always just 'pop
>>>> right out'? I'd hate to get stuck at this point!
>>>
>>>
>>>If you have gotten this far, that will be a piece of cake. This is the
>>>easy part! If your screwdriver has good "purchase" and good leverage
>>>(moving the earth again!) it will POP!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On putting in the rebuilt axles, the only thing that worries me is getting
>>>>the inner driveshaft assembly, with its new set ring, to properly seat
>>>>within the differential. Has anyone experience special problems with this
>>>>task?
>>>
>>>
>>>A rag, a two by four, and your hammer will knock the suckers right in! Put
>>>the rag between the rubber boot and the two by four then knock it in with
>>>the hammer. You will feel it seat.
>>
>>no!!! /never/ hammer them in. they should pop in with hand pressure.
>>if they don't, they're not seated right. sometimes a little grease on
>>the retaining ring helps keep it centered so it goes in first time.
>>hammering brinells the d/s bearings and the diff bearings. don't do it.
>>
>
>
> In a nice garage with a hoist, sure hand pressure works. But in a lousy garage
> and akward conditions, carefull common sense and lumber (soft wood) makes
> things easier. I always use grease on the clip, the spline, and the groove
> in the seal.
>
> I rebuilt a transmission once. Talk about brinelling!

why does that not surprise me?

>
>
>>>M.A. Stewart (don't email cf005... sorry...elm filter bounces all incoming
>>>email!)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I guess what I'm looking for is a lot of people to say, Hey - it'll be a
>>>>breeze - you can do it! If I could afford to have my car towed, I would dive
>>>>right in and just do it, but I'm really on the edge right now, so just
>>>>maximizing my chances of getting these rebuilds in with as few problems as
>>>>possible
>>>>
>>>>Any help/tips/sharing-of-experiences greatly appreciated.
>>>>-ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

 

M.A. Stewart wrote:
> jim beam (nospam@example.net) writes:
>
>>M.A. Stewart wrote:
>>
>>>"glenn" (lunaqua@gmail.com) writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi. I'm caught in the old bind of being too poor to get a car that doesn't
>>>>need constant repairs, because my only car needs constant repairs, thus
>>>>keeping me too poor to get a car that... you know.
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, my '86 Honda Accord DX (manual trans, 155000 miles) might get me
>>>>another year's service if I can just get the CV joints fixed, which I will
>>>>be attempting this week. Got rebuilt axles on eBay (great price, no core
>>>>bother, but always a gamble, of course) and plan to put them in myself in a
>>>>few days, and wanted to ask if anyone has specific advice on the job.
>>>>
>>>>I've read all the horror stories on the web, most to do with rust-welded
>>>>spindle nuts, which I don't think will be a factor as I don't live in the
>>>>mid-west (the 'rust belt'). The job is fairly simple, composed of the steps:
>>>>
>>>>. loosen wheel lug nuts, raise on jack stands, remove spindle nut.
>>>> I plan to use WD-40 or some other penetrating oil on the spindle
>>>> nut to help, locking the wheel with a pry bar while using a breaker
>>>> bar (with pipe extension if necessary) to loosen the spindle nut,
>>>> but would appreciate any tips anyone has; (or if your own experience
>>>> tells you I shouldn't be attempting this, let me know too).
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Loosen spindle nut FIRST (wheels on the ground, tranny in first gear,
>>>parking brake on). Chisel back the locking tab on the nut before loosening
>>>the nut. If the shafts are original, you should be able to loosen it with
>>>a 2 foot cheater pipe on your breaker bar. If some clown had the shafts
>>>out before and used an impact wrench to put the spindle nut back on, it
>>>may be over torqued. If that is the case, you will need a 5 foot cheater
>>>pipe on your breaker bar. Remember... with a big enough lever and a sturdy
>>>fulcrum, you too can move the Earth!
>>>
>>>Loosen the nut so it is flush with the end of the shaft. Bang on it a bit
>>>with a hammer (steel hammer) to get the shaft moving out of the hub a
>>>little bit. Look close between bangs to see if the shaft is moving inward
>>>toward the car. Now jack up the car and remove the wheels etc..
>>
>>/never/ use a steel hammer on bearings!!!
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>. drain tranny oil. Only question I have here is that it takes a
>>>>square-drive
>>>> wrench - does anyone know offhand what the size is?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The square end of a socket extension fits nice and does the job. I forget
>>>if it is the 3/8 inch or the 1/2 inch extension that fits.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>. remove damper fork.
>>>
>>>
>>>No... NO.... N O ! ! ! ! DO NOT REMOVE THE FORK! Unless you are 100% sure
>>>that the bolt which goes through the rubber bushing on the lower control
>>>arm is NOT SEIZED... do not touch it! And I mean 100% sure! In North
>>>America where it snows, that bolt will be seized. You don't want to twist
>>>off the head of the bolt. The inner joint is always disassembled, and the
>>>shaft (minus the needle bearings) is puzzled through the fork. It is a
>>>little messy, and a pain in the ***, but it is MUCH easier (and CHEAPER)
>>>than cutting out the lower control arms with a torch and buying new lower
>>>control arms!
>>
>>well, the official way is to remove the fork. i luckily live in
>>california and can take the fork off my 89 no problems whatsoever. sure
>>makes life easier.
>>
>>but this is all academic - the op only need pop the lower swivel to have
>>enough room to get the driveshaft out.
>
>
> Not on the 1986/1989 Accord. The inner joint will not fit through fork! The
> fork has to be removed (not advised if the bolt is siezed) or the inner
> joint disassembled.

i'm not talking completely about removing the axle, just getting
sufficient clearance to pop the ends frm the diff.

>
>
>>>Cleanliness is next to godly. Be careful not to contaminate your inner
>>>joint guts with dirt!
>>>
>>>You will need to get two new inner joint large boot clamps before you
>>>start the job. Maybe you were lucky and the CV joint rebuilder put an
>>>extra clamp into the box for you!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Question: how difficult? There are 2 bolts - are
>>>> they likely to be seized or rusted together?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>If the car has been driven in the snow (where salt is used on the road),
>>>the lower fork bolt WILL BE SEIZED. DO NOT TOUCH THE BOLT. SEE ABOVE.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>. remove knuckle-to-lower arm castle nut, and separate with 2-arm gear
>>>> puller. Any problems/tips here I should be aware of?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Don't use the puller. Use a ball joint fork. BUT... BUT... only use ONE
>>>TINE of the ball joint fork so that the rubber boot on the ball joint is
>>>not damaged. Slip ONE TINE of the fork in between the control arm and the
>>>knuckle (not the side closest to the brake rotor, but the other side which
>>>is close to the engine). Loosen the castle nut, do not remove it yet.
>>>Whack your pickle fork and it will pop the tapered ball joint stud out,
>>>without damaging the rubber boot. Now remove the castle nut. If you don't
>>>have a ball joint fork, a nice big, fat, rampy cold chisel will work just
>>>as well in the same manner as above. Don't **** around with a puller.
>>
>>i completely disagree. what you're suggesting is both bad for the car
>>and dangerous for theoperator. use the proper tool. it's not expensive
>>and is /way/ safer. not to mention the cost savings of not fixing a
>>screwed up swivel or boot.
>>
>
>
> You can use the pickle fork succesfully on the 1986/1989 Accord without
> any damage. You can also use a good cold chisel with the same good results.
> The puller lugs won't hold well on the lower control arm. Plus you will have
> to whack the control arm with a hammer when the puller can't be tightened
> any more. Been there on a 3Gee. Don't **** with a puller.

then you weren't using the correct tool!

>
>
>>>
>>>>. pull knuckle outward, removing draveshaft outboard joint from knuckle
>>>> with a plastic hammer. Q: Can it be stuck to where it just won't come
>>>> out? If so, how best to get it out...
>>>
>>>
>>>See above re: now jack up the car. Use a regular steel hammer. It has more
>>>weight behind it and the drive shaft steel is really tough. It takes a lot
>>>of muscle and some real big time hammering to damage that steel. I've
>>>whacked out those shafts and didn't even mark the steel!
>>
>>then you weren't hitting very hard and got real lucky. when those
>>things get damaged, they get /real/ expensive, not to mention very
>>inconvenient.
>
>
> No luck. Just common sense that worked.

dude, you've clearly never worked on many siezed joints. if you had,
you'd know that the correct tool has the job done in 2 minutes, and that
a fudge like you describe can take hours, not counting repair of damaged
parts and personal injury. $60 for the right tool is /so/ cheap.

>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>>. pry out the inboard driveshaft assembly with a screwdriver (forcing inner
>>>> set ring past inner groove in differential); Q: Does it always just 'pop
>>>> right out'? I'd hate to get stuck at this point!
>>>
>>>
>>>If you have gotten this far, that will be a piece of cake. This is the
>>>easy part! If your screwdriver has good "purchase" and good leverage
>>>(moving the earth again!) it will POP!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On putting in the rebuilt axles, the only thing that worries me is getting
>>>>the inner driveshaft assembly, with its new set ring, to properly seat
>>>>within the differential. Has anyone experience special problems with this
>>>>task?
>>>
>>>
>>>A rag, a two by four, and your hammer will knock the suckers right in! Put
>>>the rag between the rubber boot and the two by four then knock it in with
>>>the hammer. You will feel it seat.
>>
>>no!!! /never/ hammer them in. they should pop in with hand pressure.
>>if they don't, they're not seated right. sometimes a little grease on
>>the retaining ring helps keep it centered so it goes in first time.
>>hammering brinells the d/s bearings and the diff bearings. don't do it.
>>
>
>
> In a nice garage with a hoist, sure hand pressure works. But in a lousy garage
> and akward conditions, carefull common sense and lumber (soft wood) makes
> things easier. I always use grease on the clip, the spline, and the groove
> in the seal.
>
> I rebuilt a transmission once. Talk about brinelling!

why does that not surprise me?

>
>
>>>M.A. Stewart (don't email cf005... sorry...elm filter bounces all incoming
>>>email!)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I guess what I'm looking for is a lot of people to say, Hey - it'll be a
>>>>breeze - you can do it! If I could afford to have my car towed, I would dive
>>>>right in and just do it, but I'm really on the edge right now, so just
>>>>maximizing my chances of getting these rebuilds in with as few problems as
>>>>possible
>>>>
>>>>Any help/tips/sharing-of-experiences greatly appreciated.
>>>>-ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

 

glenn wrote:
> "glenn" <lunaqua@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:0715f.3717$BZ5.1523@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
>
>>Hi. I'm caught in the old bind of being too poor to get a car that doesn't
>>need constant repairs, because my only car needs constant repairs, thus
>>keeping me too poor to get a car that... you know.
>>
>>Anyway, my '86 Honda Accord DX (manual trans, 155000 miles) might get me
>>another year's service if I can just get the CV joints fixed, which I will
>>be attempting this week. Got rebuilt axles on eBay (great price, no core
>>bother, but always a gamble, of course) and plan to put them in myself in
>>a few days, and wanted to ask if anyone has specific advice on the job.
>>
>>I've read all the horror stories on the web, most to do with rust-welded
>>spindle nuts, which I don't think will be a factor as I don't live in the
>>mid-west (the 'rust belt'). The job is fairly simple, composed of the
>>steps:
>>
>>. loosen wheel lug nuts, raise on jack stands, remove spindle nut.
>> I plan to use WD-40 or some other penetrating oil on the spindle
>> nut to help, locking the wheel with a pry bar while using a breaker
>> bar (with pipe extension if necessary) to loosen the spindle nut,
>> but would appreciate any tips anyone has; (or if your own experience
>> tells you I shouldn't be attempting this, let me know too).
>>
>>. drain tranny oil. Only question I have here is that it takes a
>>square-drive
>> wrench - does anyone know offhand what the size is?
>>
>>. remove damper fork. Question: how difficult? There are 2 bolts - are
>> they likely to be seized or rusted together?
>>
>>. remove knuckle-to-lower arm castle nut, and separate with 2-arm gear
>> puller. Any problems/tips here I should be aware of?
>>
>>. pull knuckle outward, removing draveshaft outboard joint from knuckle
>> with a plastic hammer. Q: Can it be stuck to where it just won't come
>> out? If so, how best to get it out...
>>
>>. pry out the inboard driveshaft assembly with a screwdriver (forcing
>>inner
>> set ring past inner groove in differential); Q: Does it always just
>>'pop
>> right out'? I'd hate to get stuck at this point!
>>
>>On putting in the rebuilt axles, the only thing that worries me is getting
>>the inner driveshaft assembly, with its new set ring, to properly seat
>>within the differential. Has anyone experience special problems with this
>>task?
>>
>>I guess what I'm looking for is a lot of people to say, Hey - it'll be a
>>breeze - you can do it! If I could afford to have my car towed, I would
>>dive right in and just do it, but I'm really on the edge right now, so
>>just maximizing my chances of getting these rebuilds in with as few
>>problems as possible
>>
>>Any help/tips/sharing-of-experiences greatly appreciated.
>>-ed
>
>
> Where were all youse guys days ago when I originally posted??

dude! first, you gotta ask the right question. second, some of us work
for a living! you want free, you gotta chill.

> I attempted
> the job Friday morning and I think I might have succeeded if I had some of
> this input before I dived in. Oh well - here's the scoop:
>
> This talk about taking apart the inner joint sounds completely nuts! I'm
> going by the official dealer's manual and Hayne's manual and several other
> descriptions of the job found on the web, and they ALL say take out the
> fork, separate the lower control arm from the ball joint, and pull the whole
> half axle sucker out. I'm not in the rust belt (I'm in Bay Area, CA), so
> I've never even heard of such a thing (talk about a pain!).
>
> I had to use a 3' extension on a 1/2" drive socket wrench to break loose the
> spindle nuts, but I was successful (that had me worried as I had read horror
> stories).
>
> I had no problems whatsover with the fork - came right out. Come to think of
> it, I'm glad I did NOT read about the seized lower bolt scenerio - it would
> have just upped the anxiety.
>
> Got the blasted cotter pin out of the castle nut on the ball joint after
> only 20 minutes of fussing. 30 seconds later had the castle nut off.
>
> Then - A BRICK WALL. Could NOT get anywhere with getting the lower control
> arm free of the ball joint. Had a good sized 2-arm gear puller (as
> recommended by the manual and elsewhere): tried getting it as tight as I
> could (got it VERY tight, in fact, with no luck), and hammering on the bolt
> with puller on - all to no avail. Would have used a butane torch to heat
> lower arm but couldn't find the nozzle at my place of work so had to just
> call it quits and get it all reassembled for the sad drive back home. (Glad
> I did not heat it now that I've researched this job more on the web).
>
> Got home and spent HOURS on the web searching for into on getting the lower
> control arm free from the ball joint, and found out a few things:
>
> * input from a LOT of people saying the puller tools are all but worthless.
> I agree completely.
>
> * the one 'puller' tool most agreed can do the job is a lever-type ball end
> remover, a picture of which can be seen here: http://tinyurl.com/9gfaf Of
> course, I didn't have one, and have no $ to buy one, so it may as well not
> exist for me.
>
> * pounding on an axle end with a steel ANYTHING is complete idiotic
> (pounding on a partially unscrewed spindle nut to loosen it probably OK, but
> one should NEVER pound shaft (or joint housings) with hammer to get shaft
> installed in transaxle.
>
> * In reference to getting lower control arm free of ball joint: I came
> across several references to the 'ratchet trick' but didn't know what it was
> about. Finally tracked it down to one of the best postings I've ever come
> across in forum 'how-to' discussion: http://tinyurl.com/72zmg There's even
> a movie showing the trick in work. IF ONLY I HAD KNOWN THIS AT THE
> TIME!!!!!!!

that is a lucky california trick. and it's bad for 2 reasons. first is
that it overstresses the actual balljoint. that can lead to premature
failure of the ball/socket, and in extreme cases, fatigue of the post.
second is that it's still not guaranteed to work! the correct joint
splitter is /guaranteed/ to work. period. no stressing the wrong
parts. it's also the safest work practice.

> It's close to the suggestion posted originally by M.A. Stewart
> about using one tyne of a ball joint fork - I think if I had read that
> before my attempt, even though I don't have the fork, I would have thought
> to look around for a piece of metal to wedge in there (like a chisel) and
> maybe I could have succeeded. But with the ratchet trick, you don't even
> need a hammer - just jack up the assy, wedge in the ratchet (or any properly
> sized piece of metal), then lower the jack. If the fork is still in, the
> spring tension will pop the arm off the ball joint stud; if the fork is out,
> just stepping down smartly with your foot on the top of the caliper will pop
> it out. (so everyone claims - we'll see soon enough!)
>
> I've read enough not to fear getting the inner end of the shaft free from
> the differential, but I might have gotten stuck on getting the outer end of
> the shaft out of the hub (if I had gotten past the lower arm problem), but
> again, because I'm in CA and not the rust belt, I don't think that will be a
> great problem. (probably shouldn't have said that).
>
> I'm way too sore and tired and spent to even think about when I'll next try
> this job, but having the 'ratchet trick' to try makes a part of me almost
> eager to get back in the fray. Maybe in a few days...
>
> thanks for all responses!
>

dude, all this stuff about being tired & sore makes for injury. chicks
may dig scars, but they're not so keen on disfigurement. and
disfigurement is /way/ more expensive than this misconception that you
can't afford the tool. $60 for the tool is cheap, young grasshopper.

 

glenn wrote:
> "glenn" <lunaqua@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:0715f.3717$BZ5.1523@newssvr13.news.prodigy.co m...
>
>>Hi. I'm caught in the old bind of being too poor to get a car that doesn't
>>need constant repairs, because my only car needs constant repairs, thus
>>keeping me too poor to get a car that... you know.
>>
>>Anyway, my '86 Honda Accord DX (manual trans, 155000 miles) might get me
>>another year's service if I can just get the CV joints fixed, which I will
>>be attempting this week. Got rebuilt axles on eBay (great price, no core
>>bother, but always a gamble, of course) and plan to put them in myself in
>>a few days, and wanted to ask if anyone has specific advice on the job.
>>
>>I've read all the horror stories on the web, most to do with rust-welded
>>spindle nuts, which I don't think will be a factor as I don't live in the
>>mid-west (the 'rust belt'). The job is fairly simple, composed of the
>>steps:
>>
>>. loosen wheel lug nuts, raise on jack stands, remove spindle nut.
>> I plan to use WD-40 or some other penetrating oil on the spindle
>> nut to help, locking the wheel with a pry bar while using a breaker
>> bar (with pipe extension if necessary) to loosen the spindle nut,
>> but would appreciate any tips anyone has; (or if your own experience
>> tells you I shouldn't be attempting this, let me know too).
>>
>>. drain tranny oil. Only question I have here is that it takes a
>>square-drive
>> wrench - does anyone know offhand what the size is?
>>
>>. remove damper fork. Question: how difficult? There are 2 bolts - are
>> they likely to be seized or rusted together?
>>
>>. remove knuckle-to-lower arm castle nut, and separate with 2-arm gear
>> puller. Any problems/tips here I should be aware of?
>>
>>. pull knuckle outward, removing draveshaft outboard joint from knuckle
>> with a plastic hammer. Q: Can it be stuck to where it just won't come
>> out? If so, how best to get it out...
>>
>>. pry out the inboard driveshaft assembly with a screwdriver (forcing
>>inner
>> set ring past inner groove in differential); Q: Does it always just
>>'pop
>> right out'? I'd hate to get stuck at this point!
>>
>>On putting in the rebuilt axles, the only thing that worries me is getting
>>the inner driveshaft assembly, with its new set ring, to properly seat
>>within the differential. Has anyone experience special problems with this
>>task?
>>
>>I guess what I'm looking for is a lot of people to say, Hey - it'll be a
>>breeze - you can do it! If I could afford to have my car towed, I would
>>dive right in and just do it, but I'm really on the edge right now, so
>>just maximizing my chances of getting these rebuilds in with as few
>>problems as possible
>>
>>Any help/tips/sharing-of-experiences greatly appreciated.
>>-ed
>
>
> Where were all youse guys days ago when I originally posted??

dude! first, you gotta ask the right question. second, some of us work
for a living! you want free, you gotta chill.

> I attempted
> the job Friday morning and I think I might have succeeded if I had some of
> this input before I dived in. Oh well - here's the scoop:
>
> This talk about taking apart the inner joint sounds completely nuts! I'm
> going by the official dealer's manual and Hayne's manual and several other
> descriptions of the job found on the web, and they ALL say take out the
> fork, separate the lower control arm from the ball joint, and pull the whole
> half axle sucker out. I'm not in the rust belt (I'm in Bay Area, CA), so
> I've never even heard of such a thing (talk about a pain!).
>
> I had to use a 3' extension on a 1/2" drive socket wrench to break loose the
> spindle nuts, but I was successful (that had me worried as I had read horror
> stories).
>
> I had no problems whatsover with the fork - came right out. Come to think of
> it, I'm glad I did NOT read about the seized lower bolt scenerio - it would
> have just upped the anxiety.
>
> Got the blasted cotter pin out of the castle nut on the ball joint after
> only 20 minutes of fussing. 30 seconds later had the castle nut off.
>
> Then - A BRICK WALL. Could NOT get anywhere with getting the lower control
> arm free of the ball joint. Had a good sized 2-arm gear puller (as
> recommended by the manual and elsewhere): tried getting it as tight as I
> could (got it VERY tight, in fact, with no luck), and hammering on the bolt
> with puller on - all to no avail. Would have used a butane torch to heat
> lower arm but couldn't find the nozzle at my place of work so had to just
> call it quits and get it all reassembled for the sad drive back home. (Glad
> I did not heat it now that I've researched this job more on the web).
>
> Got home and spent HOURS on the web searching for into on getting the lower
> control arm free from the ball joint, and found out a few things:
>
> * input from a LOT of people saying the puller tools are all but worthless.
> I agree completely.
>
> * the one 'puller' tool most agreed can do the job is a lever-type ball end
> remover, a picture of which can be seen here: http://tinyurl.com/9gfaf Of
> course, I didn't have one, and have no $ to buy one, so it may as well not
> exist for me.
>
> * pounding on an axle end with a steel ANYTHING is complete idiotic
> (pounding on a partially unscrewed spindle nut to loosen it probably OK, but
> one should NEVER pound shaft (or joint housings) with hammer to get shaft
> installed in transaxle.
>
> * In reference to getting lower control arm free of ball joint: I came
> across several references to the 'ratchet trick' but didn't know what it was
> about. Finally tracked it down to one of the best postings I've ever come
> across in forum 'how-to' discussion: http://tinyurl.com/72zmg There's even
> a movie showing the trick in work. IF ONLY I HAD KNOWN THIS AT THE
> TIME!!!!!!!

that is a lucky california trick. and it's bad for 2 reasons. first is
that it overstresses the actual balljoint. that can lead to premature
failure of the ball/socket, and in extreme cases, fatigue of the post.
second is that it's still not guaranteed to work! the correct joint
splitter is /guaranteed/ to work. period. no stressing the wrong
parts. it's also the safest work practice.

> It's close to the suggestion posted originally by M.A. Stewart
> about using one tyne of a ball joint fork - I think if I had read that
> before my attempt, even though I don't have the fork, I would have thought
> to look around for a piece of metal to wedge in there (like a chisel) and
> maybe I could have succeeded. But with the ratchet trick, you don't even
> need a hammer - just jack up the assy, wedge in the ratchet (or any properly
> sized piece of metal), then lower the jack. If the fork is still in, the
> spring tension will pop the arm off the ball joint stud; if the fork is out,
> just stepping down smartly with your foot on the top of the caliper will pop
> it out. (so everyone claims - we'll see soon enough!)
>
> I've read enough not to fear getting the inner end of the shaft free from
> the differential, but I might have gotten stuck on getting the outer end of
> the shaft out of the hub (if I had gotten past the lower arm problem), but
> again, because I'm in CA and not the rust belt, I don't think that will be a
> great problem. (probably shouldn't have said that).
>
> I'm way too sore and tired and spent to even think about when I'll next try
> this job, but having the 'ratchet trick' to try makes a part of me almost
> eager to get back in the fray. Maybe in a few days...
>
> thanks for all responses!
>

dude, all this stuff about being tired & sore makes for injury. chicks
may dig scars, but they're not so keen on disfigurement. and
disfigurement is /way/ more expensive than this misconception that you
can't afford the tool. $60 for the tool is cheap, young grasshopper.

 

If the ball joint is that stuck in the taper, and the proper tool is
unavailable or doesn't work, I have resorted to a pickle fork for tie rod
ends on my 87 prelude. The angle of the forks is much steeper, and the
opening of the forks is much narrower than the ball joint pickle forks out
there. And I got lucky and did not destroy the rubber boot on the ball joint.


On the 87 'lude, I did disassemble the inner joint, then reassembled after
running the shaft through the fork. I am located in Winnipeg, much salt and
rust up here so I didn't even want to try loosening the nuts on the steering
fork. I don't think its crazy to do that, but based on the info you provided,
you did the right thing.

t

glenn wrote:
>> Hi. I'm caught in the old bind of being too poor to get a car that doesn't
>> need constant repairs, because my only car needs constant repairs, thus
>[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>> Any help/tips/sharing-of-experiences greatly appreciated.
>> -ed
>
>Where were all youse guys days ago when I originally posted?? I attempted
>the job Friday morning and I think I might have succeeded if I had some of
>this input before I dived in. Oh well - here's the scoop:
>
>This talk about taking apart the inner joint sounds completely nuts! I'm
>going by the official dealer's manual and Hayne's manual and several other
>descriptions of the job found on the web, and they ALL say take out the
>fork, separate the lower control arm from the ball joint, and pull the whole
>half axle sucker out. I'm not in the rust belt (I'm in Bay Area, CA), so
>I've never even heard of such a thing (talk about a pain!).
>
>I had to use a 3' extension on a 1/2" drive socket wrench to break loose the
>spindle nuts, but I was successful (that had me worried as I had read horror
>stories).
>
>I had no problems whatsover with the fork - came right out. Come to think of
>it, I'm glad I did NOT read about the seized lower bolt scenerio - it would
>have just upped the anxiety.
>
>Got the blasted cotter pin out of the castle nut on the ball joint after
>only 20 minutes of fussing. 30 seconds later had the castle nut off.
>
>Then - A BRICK WALL. Could NOT get anywhere with getting the lower control
>arm free of the ball joint. Had a good sized 2-arm gear puller (as
>recommended by the manual and elsewhere): tried getting it as tight as I
>could (got it VERY tight, in fact, with no luck), and hammering on the bolt
>with puller on - all to no avail. Would have used a butane torch to heat
>lower arm but couldn't find the nozzle at my place of work so had to just
>call it quits and get it all reassembled for the sad drive back home. (Glad
>I did not heat it now that I've researched this job more on the web).
>
>Got home and spent HOURS on the web searching for into on getting the lower
>control arm free from the ball joint, and found out a few things:
>
>* input from a LOT of people saying the puller tools are all but worthless.
>I agree completely.
>
>* the one 'puller' tool most agreed can do the job is a lever-type ball end
>remover, a picture of which can be seen here: http://tinyurl.com/9gfaf Of
>course, I didn't have one, and have no $ to buy one, so it may as well not
>exist for me.
>
>* pounding on an axle end with a steel ANYTHING is complete idiotic
>(pounding on a partially unscrewed spindle nut to loosen it probably OK, but
>one should NEVER pound shaft (or joint housings) with hammer to get shaft
>installed in transaxle.
>
>* In reference to getting lower control arm free of ball joint: I came
>across several references to the 'ratchet trick' but didn't know what it was
>about. Finally tracked it down to one of the best postings I've ever come
>across in forum 'how-to' discussion: http://tinyurl.com/72zmg There's even
>a movie showing the trick in work. IF ONLY I HAD KNOWN THIS AT THE
>TIME!!!!!!! It's close to the suggestion posted originally by M.A. Stewart
>about using one tyne of a ball joint fork - I think if I had read that
>before my attempt, even though I don't have the fork, I would have thought
>to look around for a piece of metal to wedge in there (like a chisel) and
>maybe I could have succeeded. But with the ratchet trick, you don't even
>need a hammer - just jack up the assy, wedge in the ratchet (or any properly
>sized piece of metal), then lower the jack. If the fork is still in, the
>spring tension will pop the arm off the ball joint stud; if the fork is out,
>just stepping down smartly with your foot on the top of the caliper will pop
>it out. (so everyone claims - we'll see soon enough!)
>
>I've read enough not to fear getting the inner end of the shaft free from
>the differential, but I might have gotten stuck on getting the outer end of
>the shaft out of the hub (if I had gotten past the lower arm problem), but
>again, because I'm in CA and not the rust belt, I don't think that will be a
>great problem. (probably shouldn't have said that).
>
>I'm way too sore and tired and spent to even think about when I'll next try
>this job, but having the 'ratchet trick' to try makes a part of me almost
>eager to get back in the fray. Maybe in a few days...
>
>thanks for all responses!


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