Well, it finally happened. A couple of days ago, the CEL came on in my
wife's 98 Accord V6. She also reported that she thought the car wasn't
shifting normally. I drove it and couldn't be sure, but I thought it was
not shifting as decisively as it normally does. Fearing the worst, I had
her take it over to our favored independent shop this morning so he
could pull the code. Sure enough, he reported that it indicated problems
with the transmission.

The car has 116K miles on it. We purchased it used (certified, with a
HondaCare warranty) from a Honda dealer about five years ago with 41K
miles on it. Major service interval maintenance has been performed at
the same dealer, and a drain-and-refill was just performed about three
months ago. I am well aware of the numerous problems with the V6 auto
transmissions, as well as Honda's quiet warranty extension on the 00/01
model years and "unofficial" warranty extension on some of the other
years. Frankly, it's ridiculous that a Honda transmission should be
heading toward failure at under 120K miles.

The code was reset after being read today. Assuming it recurs, I plan to
take the car in to the dealer and attempt to make the case that Honda
should cover the cost of a replacement transmission as this is a well-
documented engineering flaw and they have provided similar consideration
in the past to other owners. I'm not sure how much this dealer will be
willing to go to bat for me with American Honda, but I'm prepared to
contact American Honda directly if I can't reach a mutually acceptable
agreement with the dealer. I'm hoping that my long history of Honda
ownership will count in my favor if they're on the fence about doing
anything.

For those of you who have dealt with this problem previously, and have
managed to convince Honda to absorb some/all of the cost of a new
transmission, any words of advice as to the best approach to take, or
links to other sites I might want to check out?

Thanks in advance,

Dave

 

Dave Garrett wrote:
> Well, it finally happened. A couple of days ago, the CEL came on in my
> wife's 98 Accord V6. She also reported that she thought the car wasn't
> shifting normally. I drove it and couldn't be sure, but I thought it was
> not shifting as decisively as it normally does. Fearing the worst, I had
> her take it over to our favored independent shop this morning so he
> could pull the code. Sure enough, he reported that it indicated problems
> with the transmission.
>
> The car has 116K miles on it. We purchased it used (certified, with a
> HondaCare warranty) from a Honda dealer about five years ago with 41K
> miles on it. Major service interval maintenance has been performed at
> the same dealer, and a drain-and-refill was just performed about three
> months ago. I am well aware of the numerous problems with the V6 auto
> transmissions, as well as Honda's quiet warranty extension on the 00/01
> model years and "unofficial" warranty extension on some of the other
> years. Frankly, it's ridiculous that a Honda transmission should be
> heading toward failure at under 120K miles.
>
> The code was reset after being read today. Assuming it recurs, I plan to
> take the car in to the dealer and attempt to make the case that Honda
> should cover the cost of a replacement transmission as this is a well-
> documented engineering flaw and they have provided similar consideration
> in the past to other owners. I'm not sure how much this dealer will be
> willing to go to bat for me with American Honda, but I'm prepared to
> contact American Honda directly if I can't reach a mutually acceptable
> agreement with the dealer. I'm hoping that my long history of Honda
> ownership will count in my favor if they're on the fence about doing
> anything.
>
> For those of you who have dealt with this problem previously, and have
> managed to convince Honda to absorb some/all of the cost of a new
> transmission, any words of advice as to the best approach to take, or
> links to other sites I might want to check out?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Dave
>
============================

What's the code ? ? ? ?

 

"Dave Garrett" <dave@compassnet.com> wrote in message news:MPG.22e80e465c3839198a23e@208.90.168.18...
> take the car in to the dealer and attempt to make the case that Honda
> should cover the cost of a replacement transmission as this is a well-
> documented engineering flaw and they have provided similar consideration
> in the past to other owners.

How can you know it is the same issue as with other owners?
How are you going to prove that this is engineering flaw?
What exactly is the problem with your transmission? The code #?

 

In article
<rrOdneutRfcpRuLVnZ2dnUVZ_vninZ2d@posted.uniservec ommunications>,
motsco_@interbaun.com says...
> Dave Garrett wrote:
> > Well, it finally happened. A couple of days ago, the CEL came on in my
> > wife's 98 Accord V6. She also reported that she thought the car wasn't
> > shifting normally. I drove it and couldn't be sure, but I thought it was
> > not shifting as decisively as it normally does. Fearing the worst, I had
> > her take it over to our favored independent shop this morning so he
> > could pull the code. Sure enough, he reported that it indicated problems
> > with the transmission.

[snip]

> What's the code ? ? ? ?

I don't have it - yet. I wasn't there when the shop read it, and not
being very familiar with ECUs and trouble codes, my wife didn't think to
ask him for it. I called the shop today to find out what it was, but
they'd closed up early (it's a small shop and the two owners are the
sole employees). FWIW, I trust this shop implicitly - they are
knowledgable and honest, so I'm absolutely certain they're not trying to
sell me an expensive transmission repair I don't need.

I'll post the code when I have it. It's been two days and the CEL hasn't
come on again yet after being reset.

Dave

 

In article <g5q8hg.bgk.0@poczta.onet.pl>, Pszemol@PolBox.com says...
> "Dave Garrett" <dave@compassnet.com> wrote in message news:MPG.22e80e465c3839198a23e@208.90.168.18...
> > take the car in to the dealer and attempt to make the case that Honda
> > should cover the cost of a replacement transmission as this is a well-
> > documented engineering flaw and they have provided similar consideration
> > in the past to other owners.
>
> How can you know it is the same issue as with other owners?
> How are you going to prove that this is engineering flaw?
> What exactly is the problem with your transmission? The code #?

It isn't exactly a secret that there have been instances of Honda V6
auto transmission failures in numbers far above what could be considered
a normal statistical average. I don't know exactly how many failures
there have been, and I'm sure Honda isn't eager to publicize that kind
of data, but there have been enough to cause at least one class-action
lawsuit to be filed and the factory warranty period extended to 100,000
miles for certain model years.

It's not just random chance that has caused failures specific to V6 auto
trannys over multiple model years of Accords and Odysseys dating back to
1998. I don't know what else you'd call it besides an engineering flaw.
It's certainly a marked downturn for a company that used to be known for
the superior engineering of its powerplants.

The problem with mine is an increasing reluctance to shift. And as I
mentioned in another post, I don't have the code # yet but will post it
when I do.

Dave

 

In article <MPG.22eac5bc96ac27f98a242@208.90.168.18>,
Dave Garrett <dave@compassnet.com> wrote:

> It's not just random chance that has caused failures specific to V6 auto
> trannys over multiple model years of Accords and Odysseys dating back to
> 1998. I don't know what else you'd call it besides an engineering flaw.
> It's certainly a marked downturn for a company that used to be known for
> the superior engineering of its powerplants.

It resulted in the largest recall ever, and is the direct result of
Honda giving too much power to the beancounters in the late 80s/early
90s. They went too far, and damn near destroyed Honda's carefully built
reputation. But what did they care--they needed results for next
quarter, screw this long term thing.

 

Dave Garrett <dave@compassnet.com> wrote in
news:MPG.22eac5bc96ac27f98a242@208.90.168.18:

> In article <g5q8hg.bgk.0@poczta.onet.pl>, Pszemol@PolBox.com says...
>> "Dave Garrett" <dave@compassnet.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.22e80e465c3839198a23e@208.90.168.18...
>> > take the car in to the dealer and attempt to make the case that
>> > Honda should cover the cost of a replacement transmission as this
>> > is a well- documented engineering flaw and they have provided
>> > similar consideration in the past to other owners.
>>
>> How can you know it is the same issue as with other owners?
>> How are you going to prove that this is engineering flaw?
>> What exactly is the problem with your transmission? The code #?
>
> It isn't exactly a secret that there have been instances of Honda V6
> auto transmission failures in numbers far above what could be
> considered a normal statistical average. I don't know exactly how many
> failures there have been, and I'm sure Honda isn't eager to publicize
> that kind of data, but there have been enough to cause at least one
> class-action lawsuit to be filed and the factory warranty period
> extended to 100,000 miles for certain model years.
>
> It's not just random chance that has caused failures specific to V6
> auto trannys over multiple model years of Accords and Odysseys dating
> back to 1998. I don't know what else you'd call it besides an
> engineering flaw. It's certainly a marked downturn for a company that
> used to be known for the superior engineering of its powerplants.
>
> The problem with mine is an increasing reluctance to shift. And as I
> mentioned in another post, I don't have the code # yet but will post
> it when I do.
>



The 1998 Accord is, as far as I can determine, not part of the inherently
defective crowd.

Honda has very publicly admitted to the existence of several serious
defects in V6 auto trannies for the '99 to '04 model years of various
models, and has been generous in fixing them. Honda has had its eye on
Toyota and their past troubles with certain 1MZ-FE 3.0 V6's, and is not
eager to be tarred with the same brush.

Your '98? Well, it's ten years old, with ten years of potential neglect and
abuse. The wrong fluid, neglected changes, who knows what.
To "mashup" Curly and the rock group REM, "What's the Code, Kenneth?"


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

If you have had this car serviced by the "dealer" for the last 5 years.
They may go to bat for you.
10 year old car: At what point do you take full responsibility and own the
car?

I'm curious, just what is your expectation regarding transmission life?


Dave Garrett wrote:

> Well, it finally happened. A couple of days ago, the CEL came on in my
> wife's 98 Accord V6. She also reported that she thought the car wasn't
> shifting normally. I drove it and couldn't be sure, but I thought it was
> not shifting as decisively as it normally does. Fearing the worst, I had
> her take it over to our favored independent shop this morning so he
> could pull the code. Sure enough, he reported that it indicated problems
> with the transmission.
>
> The car has 116K miles on it. We purchased it used (certified, with a
> HondaCare warranty) from a Honda dealer about five years ago with 41K
> miles on it. Major service interval maintenance has been performed at
> the same dealer, and a drain-and-refill was just performed about three
> months ago. I am well aware of the numerous problems with the V6 auto
> transmissions, as well as Honda's quiet warranty extension on the 00/01
> model years and "unofficial" warranty extension on some of the other
> years. Frankly, it's ridiculous that a Honda transmission should be
> heading toward failure at under 120K miles.
>
> The code was reset after being read today. Assuming it recurs, I plan to
> take the car in to the dealer and attempt to make the case that Honda
> should cover the cost of a replacement transmission as this is a well-
> documented engineering flaw and they have provided similar consideration
> in the past to other owners. I'm not sure how much this dealer will be
> willing to go to bat for me with American Honda, but I'm prepared to
> contact American Honda directly if I can't reach a mutually acceptable
> agreement with the dealer. I'm hoping that my long history of Honda
> ownership will count in my favor if they're on the fence about doing
> anything.
>
> For those of you who have dealt with this problem previously, and have
> managed to convince Honda to absorb some/all of the cost of a new
> transmission, any words of advice as to the best approach to take, or
> links to other sites I might want to check out?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Dave

 

"TomP" <roadcyc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message news:4881FE53.D8739BEB@socal.rr.com...
> If you have had this car serviced by the "dealer" for the last 5 years.
> They may go to bat for you.
> 10 year old car: At what point do you take full responsibility and own the
> car?
>
> I'm curious, just what is your expectation regarding transmission life?

My expectations are for the whole life of the car, 300 thousand miles or more.
Properly mainained transmission should never go bad in my opinion :-)
Are my expectations too high for honda?

 

On 2008-07-19, Pszemol <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote:
> "TomP" <roadcyc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message news:4881FE53.D8739BEB@socal.rr.com...
>> If you have had this car serviced by the "dealer" for the last 5 years.
>> They may go to bat for you.
>> 10 year old car: At what point do you take full responsibility and own the
>> car?
>>
>> I'm curious, just what is your expectation regarding transmission life?
>
> My expectations are for the whole life of the car, 300 thousand miles or more.
> Properly mainained transmission should never go bad in my opinion :-)
> Are my expectations too high for honda?

Your expectations are too high for anyone.

While most of them will last that long, mechanical failures do occur,
and at that age/mileage, it is hard to tell the cause, especially if
you don't know the maintenance history...


--
Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..." - Danny, American History X

 

In article <Xns9ADFDE621BC19tegger@208.90.168.18>, tegger@tegger.c0m
says...

> The 1998 Accord is, as far as I can determine, not part of the inherently
> defective crowd.
>
> Honda has very publicly admitted to the existence of several serious
> defects in V6 auto trannies for the '99 to '04 model years of various
> models, and has been generous in fixing them. Honda has had its eye on
> Toyota and their past troubles with certain 1MZ-FE 3.0 V6's, and is not
> eager to be tarred with the same brush.
>
> Your '98? Well, it's ten years old, with ten years of potential neglect and
> abuse. The wrong fluid, neglected changes, who knows what.
> To "mashup" Curly and the rock group REM, "What's the Code, Kenneth?"

OK. I mistyped the model year in my original post. It's a '99, not a
'98. Purchased with 41K miles on it, as a certified used car from the
same dealer that's serviced it since then. The maintenance intervals as
specified in the owner's manual for severe conditions have been followed
since then (it gets well over 90 degrees here for several months out of
the year).

Since the tranny fluid changes have been performed at a Honda dealer, I
assume they're using Honda ATF. But this is the same dealer whose
service department aggressively pushes powerflushing the transmission
whenever the topic comes up. I have always refused to have it flushed,
but I did have them do a drain-and-fill (once, not 3x) about three
months ago when they said the fluid didn't look too good. It was due for
a fluid change at 120K (we're only at about 115K now), but I didn't want
to risk waiting for the 120K service if the fluid was showing its age.

I finally had a chance to drive the car today to get a better feel for
what was going on, since the extent of my wife's description of the
problem so far has been "it's shifting funny". For the first part of our
trip today, it drove fine, with no problems. About midway through our
errands, after driving maybe 15-20 miles, I noticed a rough downshift -
much rougher than normal, almost enough to chirp the tires. By the time
we made another couple of stops, it was very hesitant to upshift. The
engine would rev higher, but the car would barely move, and when it did
finally upshift, the upshifts were very abrupt and jerky. Downshifting
was similarly delayed and rough - the car would come to a complete stop,
and sit for a couple of seconds before the final downshift would occur.
It eventually got to the point to where it was almost undrivable, and I
wasn't sure we were going to make it home, but we did. Oh, and the CEL
has yet to come back on since it was reset.

My wife mentioned that the problem seems to be worst in the afternoons,
which are obviously the hottest part of the day. I was hoping to buy a
little time to research the problem further, but based on our drive
today, the car is unsafe to drive with the transmission acting like
this, so I'm going to have to do something sooner rather than later. My
father suggested taking it to a transmission shop to see if it can be
repaired as opposed to swapping it out for a remanufactured tranny, but
I'm more inclined to start with calling Honda's US customer service
department. Since the model year is outside the scope of the warranty
extension, and since it would've been past the warranty period at this
point anyway, I don't expect a free ride, but I don't think some sort of
consideration is unreasonable. With proper maintenance, there's no
reason a transmission shouldn't last for the life of the car.

Dave

 

So, you do not know how the car was driven, or exactly what was put in
there before the 41K mark...

It is possible that the car may have been running non-Z1 for quite
some time...

Also, is the radiator full and the overflow at the MAX line?

It sounds like there may be a problem with the cooling system or the
flow of tranny fluid to the cooler. Or, you may benefit from adding a
cooler to the car, like would be added if you were planning on towing
things. Clearly the heat is a factor...


--
Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..." - Danny, American History X

 

Pszemol wrote:

> "TomP" <roadcyc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message news:4881FE53.D8739BEB@socal.rr.com...
> > If you have had this car serviced by the "dealer" for the last 5 years.
> > They may go to bat for you.
> > 10 year old car: At what point do you take full responsibility and own the
> > car?
> >
> > I'm curious, just what is your expectation regarding transmission life?
>
> My expectations are for the whole life of the car, 300 thousand miles or more.
> Properly mainained transmission should never go bad in my opinion :-)
> Are my expectations too high for honda?

Your expectation (IMO) is unreasonable for any brand car, including Honda, equipped with
an automatic transmission.

At what point do you take full responsibility and own the whole car?

 

On Jul 19, 6:29 pm, Joe <j...@nospam.hits-buffalo.com> wrote:
> So, you do not know how the car was driven, or exactly what was put in
> there before the 41K mark...
>
> It is possible that the car may have been running non-Z1 for quite
> some time...
>
> Also, is the radiator full and the overflow at the MAX line?
>
> It sounds like there may be a problem with the cooling system or the
> flow of tranny fluid to the cooler. Or, you may benefit from adding a
> cooler to the car, like would be added if you were planning on towing
> things. Clearly the heat is a factor...
>
> --
> Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
> joe at hits - buffalo dot com
> "Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
> time..." - Danny, American History X

I've had the same same problem on my 01 V6 Accord. I had about 120K
miles on mine as well and I was unaware of the warranty extension
(somewhat to my dismay when I did find out later). I do not think the
extension was large enough in terms of miles to cover it anyways. At
first the dealership wanted about $3500 but then they matched a $2800
quote from a small transmission repair shop.

I have a friend who has an Accura plagued by the same transmission
problems and having received a similar extension. He's had to replace
the transmission multiple times. The last time he had to replace it
he was outside of the extension, but after some negotiations, the
dealership convinced the manufacturer to provide the parts for free
and my buddy only had to pay for labor. That's the path I'd take if I
had to deal with this issue again.

Gabor

 

TomP wrote:
>
> Pszemol wrote:
>
>> "TomP" <roadcyc@socal.rr.com> wrote in message news:4881FE53.D8739BEB@socal.rr.com...
>>> If you have had this car serviced by the "dealer" for the last 5 years.
>>> They may go to bat for you.
>>> 10 year old car: At what point do you take full responsibility and own the
>>> car?
>>>
>>> I'm curious, just what is your expectation regarding transmission life?
>> My expectations are for the whole life of the car, 300 thousand miles or more.
>> Properly mainained transmission should never go bad in my opinion :-)
>> Are my expectations too high for honda?
>
> Your expectation (IMO) is unreasonable for any brand car, including Honda, equipped with
> an automatic transmission.
>
> At what point do you take full responsibility and own the whole car?
>

you're /way/ too used to being ripped off by detroit garbage whose
design spec /is/ 100k. honda /used/ to make automatic transmissions
that went 300k no problems. that's why people bought them. failure at
detroit intervals puts honda at detroit quality - not good for owner
loyalty.