99 Accord 4cyl, auto, 105k miles. Had the rubber band changed a couple
months ago, shortly before the weather got cold. Also did water pump at
the same time (since they had it apart anyway), and changed plugs,
wires, etc.

Since then, at cold start, the temp needle takes forever getting off the
peg. At highway speed, it drops down to just above the peg, and only
shows in what I consider the 'normal' range (1/3 to 1/2 of scale) when
driving in town in stop and go traffic. Engine seems to run fine, and
MPG is still mid-20s in town, and a hair under 30 on highway.

Do I have a problem? If I take it back to same shop, what do I need to
ask them to check? Bad sensor? Bad gauge? Wrong T-stat?

Any ideas appreciated- I haven't done any wrenching to speak of since
carburetor non-computer days. Hate to just throw parts at it, since
Honda parts cost twice what normal cars do, it seems. The shell is still
clean, so I was hoping to get another 5-6 years out of this thing.

--
aem sends...

 

aemeijers wrote:
> 99 Accord 4cyl, auto, 105k miles. Had the rubber band changed a couple
> months ago, shortly before the weather got cold. Also did water pump at
> the same time (since they had it apart anyway), and changed plugs,
> wires, etc.
>
> Since then, at cold start, the temp needle takes forever getting off the
> peg. At highway speed, it drops down to just above the peg, and only
> shows in what I consider the 'normal' range (1/3 to 1/2 of scale) when
> driving in town in stop and go traffic. Engine seems to run fine, and
> MPG is still mid-20s in town, and a hair under 30 on highway.
>
> Do I have a problem? If I take it back to same shop, what do I need to
> ask them to check? Bad sensor? Bad gauge? Wrong T-stat?
>
> Any ideas appreciated- I haven't done any wrenching to speak of since
> carburetor non-computer days. Hate to just throw parts at it, since
> Honda parts cost twice what normal cars do, it seems. The shell is still
> clean, so I was hoping to get another 5-6 years out of this thing.
>
> --
> aem sends...

Thermostat.

--
JRE

 

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:09:12 -0500, aemeijers <aemeijers@att.net> wrote:
>99 Accord 4cyl, auto, 105k miles. Had the rubber band changed a couple
>months ago, shortly before the weather got cold. Also did water pump at
>the same time (since they had it apart anyway), and changed plugs,
>wires, etc.

If the engine runs then it will generate enough heat to overheat in
short order. If it is overcooling than you have a bad thermostat.
Or you've somehow recalled the laws of physics.

 

aemeijers wrote:
> 99 Accord 4cyl, auto, 105k miles. Had the rubber band changed a couple
> months ago, shortly before the weather got cold. Also did water pump at
> the same time (since they had it apart anyway), and changed plugs,
> wires, etc.
>
> Since then, at cold start, the temp needle takes forever getting off the
> peg. At highway speed, it drops down to just above the peg, and only
> shows in what I consider the 'normal' range (1/3 to 1/2 of scale) when
> driving in town in stop and go traffic. Engine seems to run fine, and
> MPG is still mid-20s in town, and a hair under 30 on highway.
>
> Do I have a problem? If I take it back to same shop, what do I need to
> ask them to check? Bad sensor? Bad gauge? Wrong T-stat?
>
> Any ideas appreciated- I haven't done any wrenching to speak of since
> carburetor non-computer days. Hate to just throw parts at it, since
> Honda parts cost twice what normal cars do, it seems. The shell is still
> clean, so I was hoping to get another 5-6 years out of this thing.
>
> --
> aem sends...

Sounds like an open or missing thermostat. Not an uncommon thing to have
them bad out of the box. One of the reasons I test all the ones I buy
before they get installed.

If they are a good shop they will throw a scan tool on it before they
pull it apart. The tool will show if the gauge is correct or if it
really is running cold.


--
Steve W.

 

aemeijers wrote:
>
> 99 Accord 4cyl, auto, 105k miles. Had the rubber band changed a couple
> months ago, shortly before the weather got cold. Also did water pump at
> the same time (since they had it apart anyway), and changed plugs,
> wires, etc.
>
> Since then, at cold start, the temp needle takes forever getting off the
> peg. At highway speed, it drops down to just above the peg, and only
> shows in what I consider the 'normal' range (1/3 to 1/2 of scale) when
> driving in town in stop and go traffic. Engine seems to run fine, and
> MPG is still mid-20s in town, and a hair under 30 on highway.
>
> Do I have a problem? If I take it back to same shop, what do I need to
> ask them to check? Bad sensor? Bad gauge? Wrong T-stat?

Why is it you think the car might suddenly acquire the wrong thermostat?
If changing the thermostat was part of the recent maintenance work, go
back and complain.

What you describe is exactly what happens with an stuck open
thermostat or perhaps even no thermostat. Probably it is stuck open
(unless for some reason they removed it). Extremely unlikely that the
gauge or sending unit is bad. Its pretty close to impossible, given your
precise description of what its doing, that it could have a properly
working thermostat and a bad gauge or sending unit.

-jim

>
> Any ideas appreciated- I haven't done any wrenching to speak of since
> carburetor non-computer days. Hate to just throw parts at it, since
> Honda parts cost twice what normal cars do, it seems. The shell is still
> clean, so I was hoping to get another 5-6 years out of this thing.
>
> --
> aem sends...

 

jim wrote:
>
> aemeijers wrote:
>> 99 Accord 4cyl, auto, 105k miles. Had the rubber band changed a couple
>> months ago, shortly before the weather got cold. Also did water pump at
>> the same time (since they had it apart anyway), and changed plugs,
>> wires, etc.
>>
>> Since then, at cold start, the temp needle takes forever getting off the
>> peg. At highway speed, it drops down to just above the peg, and only
>> shows in what I consider the 'normal' range (1/3 to 1/2 of scale) when
>> driving in town in stop and go traffic. Engine seems to run fine, and
>> MPG is still mid-20s in town, and a hair under 30 on highway.
>>
>> Do I have a problem? If I take it back to same shop, what do I need to
>> ask them to check? Bad sensor? Bad gauge? Wrong T-stat?
>
> Why is it you think the car might suddenly acquire the wrong thermostat?
> If changing the thermostat was part of the recent maintenance work, go
> back and complain.
>
> What you describe is exactly what happens with an stuck open
> thermostat or perhaps even no thermostat. Probably it is stuck open
> (unless for some reason they removed it). Extremely unlikely that the
> gauge or sending unit is bad. Its pretty close to impossible, given your
> precise description of what its doing, that it could have a properly
> working thermostat and a bad gauge or sending unit.
>
> -jim
>
>> Any ideas appreciated- I haven't done any wrenching to speak of since
>> carburetor non-computer days. Hate to just throw parts at it, since
>> Honda parts cost twice what normal cars do, it seems. The shell is still
>> clean, so I was hoping to get another 5-6 years out of this thing.
>>
>> --
>> aem sends...

Appreciate all the replies, everyone. I was hoping it was something
minor like that. Unless we get a warm spell, guess I need to take it
back to the shop. :^(

--
aem sends...

 

"aemeijers" <aemeijers@att.net> wrote in message
news:XKKdnf1Yg9M7kY_WnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> jim wrote:
>>
>> aemeijers wrote:
>>> 99 Accord 4cyl, auto, 105k miles. Had the rubber band changed a couple
>>> months ago, shortly before the weather got cold. Also did water pump at
>>> the same time (since they had it apart anyway), and changed plugs,
>>> wires, etc.
>>>
>>> Since then, at cold start, the temp needle takes forever getting off the
>>> peg. At highway speed, it drops down to just above the peg, and only
>>> shows in what I consider the 'normal' range (1/3 to 1/2 of scale) when
>>> driving in town in stop and go traffic. Engine seems to run fine, and
>>> MPG is still mid-20s in town, and a hair under 30 on highway.
>>>
>>> Do I have a problem? If I take it back to same shop, what do I need to
>>> ask them to check? Bad sensor? Bad gauge? Wrong T-stat?
>>
>> Why is it you think the car might suddenly acquire the wrong thermostat?
>> If changing the thermostat was part of the recent maintenance work, go
>> back and complain.
>>
>> What you describe is exactly what happens with an stuck open
>> thermostat or perhaps even no thermostat. Probably it is stuck open
>> (unless for some reason they removed it). Extremely unlikely that the
>> gauge or sending unit is bad. Its pretty close to impossible, given your
>> precise description of what its doing, that it could have a properly
>> working thermostat and a bad gauge or sending unit. -jim
>>> Any ideas appreciated- I haven't done any wrenching to speak of since
>>> carburetor non-computer days. Hate to just throw parts at it, since
>>> Honda parts cost twice what normal cars do, it seems. The shell is still
>>> clean, so I was hoping to get another 5-6 years out of this thing.
>>>
>>> --
>>> aem sends...
>
> Appreciate all the replies, everyone. I was hoping it was something minor
> like that. Unless we get a warm spell, guess I need to take it back to the
> shop. :^(
>
> --
> aem sends...
One further question - does the heater output coincide with the temp gauge?
That is - does the heater take forever to get warm and only put out warm air
or does the heater seem to work as it should? If the heater is working
normally, the best guess would be either the sending unit or the temp gauge.
If the heater isn't working as it should, then the best bet is the
thermostat.

DaveD
>

 

aemeijers <aemeijers@att.net> wrote in news:G--
dneWEt7IIMIzWnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@giganews.com:

> 99 Accord 4cyl, auto, 105k miles. Had the rubber band changed a couple
> months ago, shortly before the weather got cold. Also did water pump at
> the same time (since they had it apart anyway), and changed plugs,
> wires, etc.
>
> Since then, at cold start, the temp needle takes forever getting off the
> peg. At highway speed, it drops down to just above the peg, and only
> shows in what I consider the 'normal' range (1/3 to 1/2 of scale) when
> driving in town in stop and go traffic. Engine seems to run fine, and
> MPG is still mid-20s in town, and a hair under 30 on highway.
>
> Do I have a problem? If I take it back to same shop, what do I need to
> ask them to check? Bad sensor? Bad gauge? Wrong T-stat?
>
> Any ideas appreciated- I haven't done any wrenching to speak of since
> carburetor non-computer days. Hate to just throw parts at it, since
> Honda parts cost twice what normal cars do, it seems. The shell is still
> clean, so I was hoping to get another 5-6 years out of this thing.
>
> --
> aem sends...
>

I'd suspect the T-stat.it's probably stuck open.
I doubt they changed it during the timing belt service.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> aemeijers <aemeijers@att.net> wrote in news:G--
> dneWEt7IIMIzWnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> 99 Accord 4cyl, auto, 105k miles. Had the rubber band changed a couple
>> months ago, shortly before the weather got cold. Also did water pump at
>> the same time (since they had it apart anyway), and changed plugs,
>> wires, etc.
>>
>> Since then, at cold start, the temp needle takes forever getting off the
>> peg. At highway speed, it drops down to just above the peg, and only
>> shows in what I consider the 'normal' range (1/3 to 1/2 of scale) when
>> driving in town in stop and go traffic. Engine seems to run fine, and
>> MPG is still mid-20s in town, and a hair under 30 on highway.
>>
>> Do I have a problem? If I take it back to same shop, what do I need to
>> ask them to check? Bad sensor? Bad gauge? Wrong T-stat?
>>
>> Any ideas appreciated- I haven't done any wrenching to speak of since
>> carburetor non-computer days. Hate to just throw parts at it, since
>> Honda parts cost twice what normal cars do, it seems. The shell is still
>> clean, so I was hoping to get another 5-6 years out of this thing.
>>
>> --
>> aem sends...
>>
>
> I'd suspect the T-stat.it's probably stuck open.
> I doubt they changed it during the timing belt service.
>


....or they removed and never replaced it..

JT

 

Dave D wrote:
> "aemeijers" <aemeijers@att.net> wrote in message
> news:XKKdnf1Yg9M7kY_WnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>> jim wrote:
>>> aemeijers wrote:
(snip)
>> --
>> aem sends...
> One further question - does the heater output coincide with the temp gauge?
> That is - does the heater take forever to get warm and only put out warm air
> or does the heater seem to work as it should? If the heater is working
> normally, the best guess would be either the sending unit or the temp gauge.
> If the heater isn't working as it should, then the best bet is the
> thermostat.
>
> DaveD
>
>
Tested that today, by driving the car to work. Heater seems to work
fine, and blows warm within a couple blocks, and very warm within a mile
or so. (Car lives inside the attached but unheated garage, so the start
temp is warmer than a car that lives outside. Has to be subzero for the
garage to freeze hard.) All this with temp gauge on or slightly above
the peg. Gauge does still move a little, if car is stopped and idling.

Still too sniffly to get out there with a flashlight to see if I can get
to the temp sensor, with all the other crap in the way. No hurry at this
point, I guess- I can wait for a warm day, especially if the snow they
are forecasting for later this week actually happens. This is my road
trip car, and I don't have one of those for awhile.

--
aem sends...

 

aemeijers wrote:
> Dave D wrote:
>> "aemeijers" <aemeijers@att.net> wrote in message
>> news:XKKdnf1Yg9M7kY_WnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>>> jim wrote:
>>>> aemeijers wrote:
> (snip)
>>> --
>>> aem sends...
>> One further question - does the heater output coincide with the temp
>> gauge? That is - does the heater take forever to get warm and only put
>> out warm air or does the heater seem to work as it should? If the
>> heater is working normally, the best guess would be either the sending
>> unit or the temp gauge. If the heater isn't working as it should, then
>> the best bet is the thermostat.
>>
>> DaveD
>>
>>
> Tested that today, by driving the car to work. Heater seems to work
> fine, and blows warm within a couple blocks, and very warm within a mile
> or so. (Car lives inside the attached but unheated garage, so the start
> temp is warmer than a car that lives outside. Has to be subzero for the
> garage to freeze hard.) All this with temp gauge on or slightly above
> the peg. Gauge does still move a little, if car is stopped and idling.
>
> Still too sniffly to get out there with a flashlight to see if I can get
> to the temp sensor, with all the other crap in the way. No hurry at this
> point, I guess- I can wait for a warm day, especially if the snow they
> are forecasting for later this week actually happens. This is my road
> trip car, and I don't have one of those for awhile.
>
> --
> aem sends...

Toss a scan tool on it and see what the sender is telling the computer.
If it is OK then ignore the gauge. May be possible to borrow one from
some of the parts places. Just ask them if it will read live data as well.
You could have a bad sender to the gauge OR a bad connection or even a
bad gauge. A quick scan and you would know if you can just ignore it
until better weather.

--
Steve W.

 

aemeijers wrote:
> Dave D wrote:
>> "aemeijers" <aemeijers@att.net> wrote in message
>> news:XKKdnf1Yg9M7kY_WnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>>> jim wrote:
>>>> aemeijers wrote:
> (snip)
>>> --
>>> aem sends...
>> One further question - does the heater output coincide with the temp
>> gauge? That is - does the heater take forever to get warm and only put
>> out warm air or does the heater seem to work as it should? If the
>> heater is working normally, the best guess would be either the sending
>> unit or the temp gauge. If the heater isn't working as it should, then
>> the best bet is the thermostat.
>>
>> DaveD
>>
>>
> Tested that today, by driving the car to work. Heater seems to work
> fine, and blows warm within a couple blocks, and very warm within a mile
> or so. (Car lives inside the attached but unheated garage, so the start
> temp is warmer than a car that lives outside. Has to be subzero for the
> garage to freeze hard.) All this with temp gauge on or slightly above
> the peg. Gauge does still move a little, if car is stopped and idling.
>
> Still too sniffly to get out there with a flashlight to see if I can get
> to the temp sensor, with all the other crap in the way. No hurry at this
> point, I guess- I can wait for a warm day, especially if the snow they
> are forecasting for later this week actually happens. This is my road
> trip car, and I don't have one of those for awhile.
>
> --
> aem sends...

Oh where are you located? If you are nearby I could scan it for you easy
enough.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown N.Y.

 

aemeijers <aemeijers@att.net> wrote in
news:8Z6dnW63frarxInWnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@giganews.com :

> Dave D wrote:
>>
>> If the heater isn't working as it
>> should, then the best bet is the thermostat.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Tested that today, by driving the car to work. Heater seems to work
> fine, and blows warm within a couple blocks, and very warm within a
> mile or so. (Car lives inside the attached but unheated garage, so the
> start temp is warmer than a car that lives outside. Has to be subzero
> for the garage to freeze hard.) All this with temp gauge on or
> slightly above the peg. Gauge does still move a little, if car is
> stopped and idling.



If the heater appears to work fine, then the gauge is suspect. You need to
aim an infrared thermometer at the upper rad hose outlet from the head.
If, fully warm, you get much less than about 205F, then the engine is
running too cool.
If, fully warm, you get about 205, then the gauge is faulty.


>
> Still too sniffly to get out there with a flashlight to see if I can
> get to the temp sensor, with all the other crap in the way.



It's a one-wire connector that's usually right under the distributor.
Should be easy to get at.

With the infrared thermometer showing about 205 at the "sweet spot", unplug
the sender's wire and push it aside. Using a VOM, connect the sender's
contact to a good engine ground. At full-hot, you should see 35-32 ohms. If
you see significantly higher than that (like 140 ohms), then the sender is
bad.


--
Tegger

 

"Steve W." <csr684@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in news:hf1nb2$uar$1@aioe.org:


>>
>
> Toss a scan tool on it and see what the sender is telling the
> computer. If it is OK then ignore the gauge.



I'm sure you're referring to using the scan tool to check the ECT sender,
not the gauge sender.



> May be possible to borrow
> one from some of the parts places. Just ask them if it will read live
> data as well. You could have a bad sender to the gauge OR a bad
> connection or even a bad gauge.



Honda coolant-temperature-gauge senders (really just a variable ground) go
bad far more often than the gauge itself.

An infrared thermometer and a VOM are invaluable tools for solving this
problem.


--
Tegger

 

Tegger wrote:
> "Steve W." <csr684@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in news:hf1nb2$uar$1@aioe.org:
>
>
>> Toss a scan tool on it and see what the sender is telling the
>> computer. If it is OK then ignore the gauge.
>
>
>
> I'm sure you're referring to using the scan tool to check the ECT sender,
> not the gauge sender.

Yep,

>
>
>
>> May be possible to borrow
>> one from some of the parts places. Just ask them if it will read live
>> data as well. You could have a bad sender to the gauge OR a bad
>> connection or even a bad gauge.
>
>
>
> Honda coolant-temperature-gauge senders (really just a variable ground) go
> bad far more often than the gauge itself.

Sort of like other breeds. EXCEPT the damn stepper motors GM stuck in
some vehicles....

>
> An infrared thermometer and a VOM are invaluable tools for solving this
> problem.

True, just figured the scan tool was a "clean hands" option.

--
Steve W.