Elle wrote:
>
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
> > A factor often overlooked is engine health. If the
> > injectors are dirty or the ignition needs tune-up the
> > clutch release can often be the first to suffer. Try a
> > bottle of injector cleaner (most people favor Techron,
>
> Michael, can you explain this? Do you mean the stuttering
> (or whatever irregular gas/air flow/spark at the cylinders)
> sort of fools the driver into thinking it's a shift problem?
> E.g. As the gas pedal is pressed during up shifting, engine
> RPM does not change the way it should, so the shifting is
> not all that smooth?



I would guess uneven acceleration which would in turn amplify a failing
clutch symptom...

JT

 

Elle wrote:
>
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
> > A factor often overlooked is engine health. If the
> > injectors are dirty or the ignition needs tune-up the
> > clutch release can often be the first to suffer. Try a
> > bottle of injector cleaner (most people favor Techron,
>
> Michael, can you explain this? Do you mean the stuttering
> (or whatever irregular gas/air flow/spark at the cylinders)
> sort of fools the driver into thinking it's a shift problem?
> E.g. As the gas pedal is pressed during up shifting, engine
> RPM does not change the way it should, so the shifting is
> not all that smooth?



I would guess uneven acceleration which would in turn amplify a failing
clutch symptom...

JT

 

Elle wrote:
>
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
> > A factor often overlooked is engine health. If the
> > injectors are dirty or the ignition needs tune-up the
> > clutch release can often be the first to suffer. Try a
> > bottle of injector cleaner (most people favor Techron,
>
> Michael, can you explain this? Do you mean the stuttering
> (or whatever irregular gas/air flow/spark at the cylinders)
> sort of fools the driver into thinking it's a shift problem?
> E.g. As the gas pedal is pressed during up shifting, engine
> RPM does not change the way it should, so the shifting is
> not all that smooth?



I would guess uneven acceleration which would in turn amplify a failing
clutch symptom...

JT

 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3mszg.547$xp2.310@newsread1.news.pas.earthlin k.net...
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
>> A factor often overlooked is engine health. If the injectors are dirty or
>> the ignition needs tune-up the clutch release can often be the first to
>> suffer. Try a bottle of injector cleaner (most people favor Techron,
>
> Michael, can you explain this? Do you mean the stuttering (or whatever
> irregular gas/air flow/spark at the cylinders) sort of fools the driver
> into thinking it's a shift problem? E.g. As the gas pedal is pressed
> during up shifting, engine RPM does not change the way it should, so the
> shifting is not all that smooth?
>
Yes - the engine bogs down easily and becomes ragged. I think it may go into
a subtle "pilot induced oscillation" where the engine starts to rev and the
driver's foot lets out a bit more, only to put more load on the engine than
it can handle. I could be wrong about that. I've noticed it in my older
Volvo (1970) when the points needed attention and in an '84 300ZX when I ran
it on cheap gas too long. My son's '94 Acura also started doing that, and a
bottle of Techron improved it about 60-70 percent over the course of a week.

The first time I encountered it in the Volvo I assumed it was the clutch -
until the morning the engine wouldn't start. After filing the points the
clutch was magically smooth again, and the light came on over my head.
"Sayyy...." After that, whenever the clutch got touchy I would rework the
points and be stylin' again. OTOH, I had a work truck that wouldn't start
one morning (you'd think it wouldn't need a tune-up after 150K miles/9
years!) and it never got "grabby." Huh.

Anyway, in the spirit of "make everything right first, then troubleshoot" I
like to rule out tune-up issues.

Mike

 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3mszg.547$xp2.310@newsread1.news.pas.earthlin k.net...
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
>> A factor often overlooked is engine health. If the injectors are dirty or
>> the ignition needs tune-up the clutch release can often be the first to
>> suffer. Try a bottle of injector cleaner (most people favor Techron,
>
> Michael, can you explain this? Do you mean the stuttering (or whatever
> irregular gas/air flow/spark at the cylinders) sort of fools the driver
> into thinking it's a shift problem? E.g. As the gas pedal is pressed
> during up shifting, engine RPM does not change the way it should, so the
> shifting is not all that smooth?
>
Yes - the engine bogs down easily and becomes ragged. I think it may go into
a subtle "pilot induced oscillation" where the engine starts to rev and the
driver's foot lets out a bit more, only to put more load on the engine than
it can handle. I could be wrong about that. I've noticed it in my older
Volvo (1970) when the points needed attention and in an '84 300ZX when I ran
it on cheap gas too long. My son's '94 Acura also started doing that, and a
bottle of Techron improved it about 60-70 percent over the course of a week.

The first time I encountered it in the Volvo I assumed it was the clutch -
until the morning the engine wouldn't start. After filing the points the
clutch was magically smooth again, and the light came on over my head.
"Sayyy...." After that, whenever the clutch got touchy I would rework the
points and be stylin' again. OTOH, I had a work truck that wouldn't start
one morning (you'd think it wouldn't need a tune-up after 150K miles/9
years!) and it never got "grabby." Huh.

Anyway, in the spirit of "make everything right first, then troubleshoot" I
like to rule out tune-up issues.

Mike

 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3mszg.547$xp2.310@newsread1.news.pas.earthlin k.net...
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
>> A factor often overlooked is engine health. If the injectors are dirty or
>> the ignition needs tune-up the clutch release can often be the first to
>> suffer. Try a bottle of injector cleaner (most people favor Techron,
>
> Michael, can you explain this? Do you mean the stuttering (or whatever
> irregular gas/air flow/spark at the cylinders) sort of fools the driver
> into thinking it's a shift problem? E.g. As the gas pedal is pressed
> during up shifting, engine RPM does not change the way it should, so the
> shifting is not all that smooth?
>
Yes - the engine bogs down easily and becomes ragged. I think it may go into
a subtle "pilot induced oscillation" where the engine starts to rev and the
driver's foot lets out a bit more, only to put more load on the engine than
it can handle. I could be wrong about that. I've noticed it in my older
Volvo (1970) when the points needed attention and in an '84 300ZX when I ran
it on cheap gas too long. My son's '94 Acura also started doing that, and a
bottle of Techron improved it about 60-70 percent over the course of a week.

The first time I encountered it in the Volvo I assumed it was the clutch -
until the morning the engine wouldn't start. After filing the points the
clutch was magically smooth again, and the light came on over my head.
"Sayyy...." After that, whenever the clutch got touchy I would rework the
points and be stylin' again. OTOH, I had a work truck that wouldn't start
one morning (you'd think it wouldn't need a tune-up after 150K miles/9
years!) and it never got "grabby." Huh.

Anyway, in the spirit of "make everything right first, then troubleshoot" I
like to rule out tune-up issues.

Mike

 

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3mszg.547$xp2.310@newsread1.news.pas.earthlin k.net...
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
>> A factor often overlooked is engine health. If the injectors are dirty or
>> the ignition needs tune-up the clutch release can often be the first to
>> suffer. Try a bottle of injector cleaner (most people favor Techron,
>
> Michael, can you explain this? Do you mean the stuttering (or whatever
> irregular gas/air flow/spark at the cylinders) sort of fools the driver
> into thinking it's a shift problem? E.g. As the gas pedal is pressed
> during up shifting, engine RPM does not change the way it should, so the
> shifting is not all that smooth?
>
Yes - the engine bogs down easily and becomes ragged. I think it may go into
a subtle "pilot induced oscillation" where the engine starts to rev and the
driver's foot lets out a bit more, only to put more load on the engine than
it can handle. I could be wrong about that. I've noticed it in my older
Volvo (1970) when the points needed attention and in an '84 300ZX when I ran
it on cheap gas too long. My son's '94 Acura also started doing that, and a
bottle of Techron improved it about 60-70 percent over the course of a week.

The first time I encountered it in the Volvo I assumed it was the clutch -
until the morning the engine wouldn't start. After filing the points the
clutch was magically smooth again, and the light came on over my head.
"Sayyy...." After that, whenever the clutch got touchy I would rework the
points and be stylin' again. OTOH, I had a work truck that wouldn't start
one morning (you'd think it wouldn't need a tune-up after 150K miles/9
years!) and it never got "grabby." Huh.

Anyway, in the spirit of "make everything right first, then troubleshoot" I
like to rule out tune-up issues.

Mike

 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
>>> A factor often overlooked is engine health. If the
>>> injectors are dirty or the ignition needs tune-up the
>>> clutch release can often be the first to suffer. Try a
>>> bottle of injector cleaner (most people favor Techron,
>>
>> Michael, can you explain this? Do you mean the stuttering
>> (or whatever irregular gas/air flow/spark at the
>> cylinders) sort of fools the driver into thinking it's a
>> shift problem? E.g. As the gas pedal is pressed during up
>> shifting, engine RPM does not change the way it should,
>> so the shifting is not all that smooth?
>>
> Yes - the engine bogs down easily and becomes ragged. I
> think it may go into a subtle "pilot induced oscillation"
> where the engine starts to rev and the driver's foot lets
> out a bit more, only to put more load on the engine than
> it can handle. I could be wrong about that.
for brevity snipped the usual good anecdotes; please look
back

I buy it. I also googled and this came up on at least one
least web site, too.
See http://www.knight-rider.org/mn-dsm/tips/Spark.html

JT, I concur.

It's a very good point, IMO. Plus, one is not throwing money
away by doing a tuneup, either.

> Anyway, in the spirit of "make everything right first,
> then troubleshoot" I like to rule out tune-up issues.

I agree this is a proper troubleshooting approach.

 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
>>> A factor often overlooked is engine health. If the
>>> injectors are dirty or the ignition needs tune-up the
>>> clutch release can often be the first to suffer. Try a
>>> bottle of injector cleaner (most people favor Techron,
>>
>> Michael, can you explain this? Do you mean the stuttering
>> (or whatever irregular gas/air flow/spark at the
>> cylinders) sort of fools the driver into thinking it's a
>> shift problem? E.g. As the gas pedal is pressed during up
>> shifting, engine RPM does not change the way it should,
>> so the shifting is not all that smooth?
>>
> Yes - the engine bogs down easily and becomes ragged. I
> think it may go into a subtle "pilot induced oscillation"
> where the engine starts to rev and the driver's foot lets
> out a bit more, only to put more load on the engine than
> it can handle. I could be wrong about that.
for brevity snipped the usual good anecdotes; please look
back

I buy it. I also googled and this came up on at least one
least web site, too.
See http://www.knight-rider.org/mn-dsm/tips/Spark.html

JT, I concur.

It's a very good point, IMO. Plus, one is not throwing money
away by doing a tuneup, either.

> Anyway, in the spirit of "make everything right first,
> then troubleshoot" I like to rule out tune-up issues.

I agree this is a proper troubleshooting approach.

 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
>>> A factor often overlooked is engine health. If the
>>> injectors are dirty or the ignition needs tune-up the
>>> clutch release can often be the first to suffer. Try a
>>> bottle of injector cleaner (most people favor Techron,
>>
>> Michael, can you explain this? Do you mean the stuttering
>> (or whatever irregular gas/air flow/spark at the
>> cylinders) sort of fools the driver into thinking it's a
>> shift problem? E.g. As the gas pedal is pressed during up
>> shifting, engine RPM does not change the way it should,
>> so the shifting is not all that smooth?
>>
> Yes - the engine bogs down easily and becomes ragged. I
> think it may go into a subtle "pilot induced oscillation"
> where the engine starts to rev and the driver's foot lets
> out a bit more, only to put more load on the engine than
> it can handle. I could be wrong about that.
for brevity snipped the usual good anecdotes; please look
back

I buy it. I also googled and this came up on at least one
least web site, too.
See http://www.knight-rider.org/mn-dsm/tips/Spark.html

JT, I concur.

It's a very good point, IMO. Plus, one is not throwing money
away by doing a tuneup, either.

> Anyway, in the spirit of "make everything right first,
> then troubleshoot" I like to rule out tune-up issues.

I agree this is a proper troubleshooting approach.

 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote
>>> A factor often overlooked is engine health. If the
>>> injectors are dirty or the ignition needs tune-up the
>>> clutch release can often be the first to suffer. Try a
>>> bottle of injector cleaner (most people favor Techron,
>>
>> Michael, can you explain this? Do you mean the stuttering
>> (or whatever irregular gas/air flow/spark at the
>> cylinders) sort of fools the driver into thinking it's a
>> shift problem? E.g. As the gas pedal is pressed during up
>> shifting, engine RPM does not change the way it should,
>> so the shifting is not all that smooth?
>>
> Yes - the engine bogs down easily and becomes ragged. I
> think it may go into a subtle "pilot induced oscillation"
> where the engine starts to rev and the driver's foot lets
> out a bit more, only to put more load on the engine than
> it can handle. I could be wrong about that.
for brevity snipped the usual good anecdotes; please look
back

I buy it. I also googled and this came up on at least one
least web site, too.
See http://www.knight-rider.org/mn-dsm/tips/Spark.html

JT, I concur.

It's a very good point, IMO. Plus, one is not throwing money
away by doing a tuneup, either.

> Anyway, in the spirit of "make everything right first,
> then troubleshoot" I like to rule out tune-up issues.

I agree this is a proper troubleshooting approach.

 

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:44CC3412.F913D73@interbaun.com...
> Me wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> I have a '97 Civic that I bought recently. It has a 5 spd tranny. If I
>> am
>> reeaally careful letting the clutch out, I can make it shift smoothly.
>> Shifting like I have any other car I've driven tends to be kind of rough
>> and
>> jerky. It has 100K miles on it. After I bought it, I changed the manual
>> tranny fluid with the Honda fluid and noticed a big difference although
>> it
>> is still sensitive. I think that this was the first time that it had
>> been
>> changed. Would it be worth changing again to flush out the rest of the
>> crap
>> that may be in it? Are there any adjustments I can make to the clutch?
>> Lastly, any other thoughts on why this is? Other than that and a
>> vibration
>> that I think comes from a heat shield when cold, it is a great car.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bob
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Bleeding the brake fluid in the hydraulic system that moves the clutch
> might make it work closer to the 'design'. It should have been done the
> last time the brakes were bled, but nobody asks / nobody tells the
> mechanic.
>
> 'Curly'

Curly,
That did the trick. Much better now. Thanks!
Bob

 

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:44CC3412.F913D73@interbaun.com...
> Me wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> I have a '97 Civic that I bought recently. It has a 5 spd tranny. If I
>> am
>> reeaally careful letting the clutch out, I can make it shift smoothly.
>> Shifting like I have any other car I've driven tends to be kind of rough
>> and
>> jerky. It has 100K miles on it. After I bought it, I changed the manual
>> tranny fluid with the Honda fluid and noticed a big difference although
>> it
>> is still sensitive. I think that this was the first time that it had
>> been
>> changed. Would it be worth changing again to flush out the rest of the
>> crap
>> that may be in it? Are there any adjustments I can make to the clutch?
>> Lastly, any other thoughts on why this is? Other than that and a
>> vibration
>> that I think comes from a heat shield when cold, it is a great car.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bob
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Bleeding the brake fluid in the hydraulic system that moves the clutch
> might make it work closer to the 'design'. It should have been done the
> last time the brakes were bled, but nobody asks / nobody tells the
> mechanic.
>
> 'Curly'

Curly,
That did the trick. Much better now. Thanks!
Bob

 

"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:44CC3412.F913D73@interbaun.com...
> Me wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> I have a '97 Civic that I bought recently. It has a 5 spd tranny. If I
>> am
>> reeaally careful letting the clutch out, I can make it shift smoothly.
>> Shifting like I have any other car I've driven tends to be kind of rough
>> and
>> jerky. It has 100K miles on it. After I bought it, I changed the manual
>> tranny fluid with the Honda fluid and noticed a big difference although
>> it
>> is still sensitive. I think that this was the first time that it had
>> been
>> changed. Would it be worth changing again to flush out the rest of the
>> crap
>> that may be in it? Are there any adjustments I can make to the clutch?
>> Lastly, any other thoughts on why this is? Other than that and a
>> vibration
>> that I think comes from a heat shield when cold, it is a great car.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bob
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Bleeding the brake fluid in the hydraulic system that moves the clutch
> might make it work closer to the 'design'. It should have been done the
> last time the brakes were bled, but nobody asks / nobody tells the
> mechanic.
>
> 'Curly'

Curly,
That did the trick. Much better now. Thanks!
Bob

 

Me wrote:
>
> "'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in message
> > Bleeding the brake fluid in the hydraulic system that moves the clutch
> > might make it work closer to the 'design'. It should have been done the
> > last time the brakes were bled, but nobody asks / nobody tells the
> > mechanic.
> >
> > 'Curly'
>
> Curly,
> That did the trick. Much better now. Thanks!
> Bob


-----------------------------------

See, I can guess them even when it's not Psychic Wednesday !!!

I'm glad for you. A crappy clutch would be hard to live with.

'Curly'