I need to remove a crank pulley for a timing belt replacement. I hit it with
some penetrating oil tonight and went home for the night. Tomorrow when I
hit it with the impact gun, which direction will LOOSEN the bolt?

It's the 2.2L 4 cyl.

 

"Road Rage" <kaceyw@mindspring.com> wrote in
news:wMGdndz2e-3cUPLUnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@earthlink.com:

> I need to remove a crank pulley for a timing belt replacement. I hit
> it with some penetrating oil tonight and went home for the night.
> Tomorrow when I hit it with the impact gun, which direction will
> LOOSEN the bolt?
>
> It's the 2.2L 4 cyl.
>
>
>



COUNTER-clockwise, just like normal!

And penetrating oil will do you zero good.

See here for lots of exciting info on how to get that puppy loose.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/index.html


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

Good luck, they are bitchin tight. I ended up taking mine to a shop
where they used their big bertha air ratchet to loosen it, and then
snugged it up so I could drive home and do the job. It took a Chicago
Pneumatic humungous ratchet about the size of a jackhammer to loosen
this bolt. Tried a number of other tools, to no avail.

t

On Jan 15, 5:56 pm, "Road Rage" <kac...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> I need to remove a crank pulley for a timing belt replacement. I hit it with
> some penetrating oil tonight and went home for the night. Tomorrow when I
> hit it with the impact gun, which direction will LOOSEN the bolt?
>
> It's the 2.2L 4 cyl.

 

Since the torque spec is 250 pounds if I remember right You need big tools.
You also need to torque it back unless you want it flying off someday on the
road. You should also have the OEM service manual. For a lot of information
and real life instructions see the forum at www.odyclub.com.


"Road Rage" <kaceyw@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:wMGdndz2e-3cUPLUnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>I need to remove a crank pulley for a timing belt replacement. I hit it
>with some penetrating oil tonight and went home for the night. Tomorrow
>when I hit it with the impact gun, which direction will LOOSEN the bolt?
>
> It's the 2.2L 4 cyl.
>

 

On Jan 16, 3:05 pm, "Woody" <TheD...@pond.net> wrote:
> Since the torque spec is 250 pounds if I remember right You need big tools.
> You also need to torque it back unless you want it flying off someday on the
> road. You should also have the OEM service manual. For a lot of information
> and real life instructions see the forum atwww.odyclub.com.
>
> "Road Rage" <kac...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
> news:wMGdndz2e-3cUPLUnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
> >I need to remove a crank pulley for a timing belt replacement. I hit it
> >with some penetrating oil tonight and went home for the night. Tomorrow
> >when I hit it with the impact gun, which direction will LOOSEN the bolt?
>
> > It's the 2.2L 4 cyl.

The torque spec is 180 pounds. You should be able to break it
loose. The problem you will run into is when you try to get the
timing cover out past the suspension part that blocks the space
underneath. We ended up removing it as well.

btw. You are not supposed to tighten it back when you are done using
the impact wrench. For that you need the immobilizer tool and a big
torque wrench.

 

"e.meyer" <epmeyer50@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1d862e0e-7c58-4f71-8247-8dfe1d376866@v5g2000pre.googlegroups.com:

>
> The torque spec is 180 pounds.



You sure? I see 162 ft-lbs in my Mitchell manual. Maybe your 180 is the
initial tighten for a new bolt?



> You should be able to break it
> loose. The problem you will run into is when you try to get the
> timing cover out past the suspension part that blocks the space
> underneath. We ended up removing it as well.
>
> btw. You are not supposed to tighten it back when you are done using
> the impact wrench. For that you need the immobilizer tool and a big
> torque wrench.
>


See here for immobilizer tools:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/crank...html#retighten


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

On Jan 16, 6:44 pm, Tegger <inva...@invalid.inv> wrote:
> "e.meyer" <epmeye...@gmail.com> wrote innews:1d862e0e-7c58-4f71-8247-8dfe1d376866@v5g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > The torque spec is 180 pounds.
>
> You sure? I see 162 ft-lbs in my Mitchell manual. Maybe your 180 is the
> initial tighten for a new bolt?

Specified in the FSM (Helm manual) as 181 lb-ft. I don't have the car
anymore, but I still have the book.

>
> > You should be able to break it
> > loose. The problem you will run into is when you try to get the
> > timing cover out past the suspension part that blocks the space
> > underneath. We ended up removing it as well.
>
> > btw. You are not supposed to tighten it back when you are done using
> > the impact wrench. For that you need the immobilizer tool and a big
> > torque wrench.
>
> See here for immobilizer tools:http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/crank...html#retighten
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

"e.meyer" <epmeyer50@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1867a5c7-8de4-4d2f-a692-539b74dc72a5@g38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...

Specified in the FSM (Helm manual) as 181 lb-ft. I don't have the car
anymore, but I still have the book.

================================================== =

There has been extensive discussion here in the past as to just why the
torque required to loosen the crank bolt is so much greater than the torque
that was applied to tighten it originally. The upshot is that even my 500
ft-lb impact wrench has to work on the bolt for a while, and that is with
the regulator moved to the driver to eliminate the drop in the hose. It
would be interesting to know what the breakaway torque actually is, but I
would bet it is more than 400 ft-lbs.

Mike

 

On Jan 17, 1:52 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
> "e.meyer" <epmeye...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1867a5c7-8de4-4d2f-a692-539b74dc72a5@g38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> Specified in the FSM (Helm manual) as 181 lb-ft. I don't have the car
> anymore, but I still have the book.
>
> ================================================== =
>
> There has been extensive discussion here in the past as to just why the
> torque required to loosen the crank bolt is so much greater than the torque
> that was applied to tighten it originally. The upshot is that even my 500
> ft-lb impact wrench has to work on the bolt for a while, and that is with
> the regulator moved to the driver to eliminate the drop in the hose. It
> would be interesting to know what the breakaway torque actually is, but I
> would bet it is more than 400 ft-lbs.
>
> Mike

I know from doing it on my Odyssey that it takes more than 250 to
break it loose because we put a 250 ft-lb torque wrench on it when we
were trying to loosen it & it maxed out the scale (just 'cause we were
curious - we replaced it with a hardened breaker bar after we saw the
reading). We were able to loosen it by hand using an impact socket,
impact extension and a 4 ft piece of gas pipe on the breaker bar with
a jack stand for a fulcrum and another breaker bar securing the
immobilizer against the ground. It twisted the 12 inch extension a
full 90 degrees then popped loose with a bang (make sure your
extension is hardened).

 

"e.meyer" <epmeyer50@gmail.com> wrote in
news:91740817-252a-4e4f-b866-2145215918c0@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com:

> On Jan 17, 1:52 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
>> "e.meyer" <epmeye...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1867a5c7-8de4-4d2f-a692-539b74dc72a5@g38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com
>> ...
>>
>> Specified in the FSM (Helm manual) as 181 lb-ft. I don't have the
>> car anymore, but I still have the book.
>>
>> ========================
> ==========================>
>> There has been extensive discussion here in the past as to just why
>> the torque required to loosen the crank bolt is so much greater than
>> the torq
> ue
>> that was applied to tighten it originally. The upshot is that even my
>> 500 ft-lb impact wrench has to work on the bolt for a while, and that
>> is with the regulator moved to the driver to eliminate the drop in
>> the hose. It would be interesting to know what the breakaway torque
>> actually is, but I would bet it is more than 400 ft-lbs.
>>
>> Mike
>
> I know from doing it on my Odyssey that it takes more than 250 to
> break it loose because we put a 250 ft-lb torque wrench on it when we
> were trying to loosen it & it maxed out the scale




This is a well-known phenomenon called "embedment".

Honda put out a notice to their dealership techs many years ago explaining
it.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/A930200.pdf



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:55:11 +0000, Tegger wrote:

> "e.meyer" <epmeyer50@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:91740817-252a-4e4f-b866-2145215918c0@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Jan 17, 1:52 pm, "Michael Pardee" <n...@null.org> wrote:
>>> "e.meyer" <epmeye...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:1867a5c7-8de4-4d2f-a692-539b74dc72a5@g38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Specified in the FSM (Helm manual) as 181 lb-ft. I don't have the car
>>> anymore, but I still have the book.
>>>
>>> ========================
>> ==========================>
>>> There has been extensive discussion here in the past as to just why
>>> the torque required to loosen the crank bolt is so much greater than
>>> the torq
>> ue
>>> that was applied to tighten it originally. The upshot is that even my
>>> 500 ft-lb impact wrench has to work on the bolt for a while, and that
>>> is with the regulator moved to the driver to eliminate the drop in the
>>> hose. It would be interesting to know what the breakaway torque
>>> actually is, but I would bet it is more than 400 ft-lbs.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> I know from doing it on my Odyssey that it takes more than 250 to break
>> it loose because we put a 250 ft-lb torque wrench on it when we were
>> trying to loosen it & it maxed out the scale
>
>
>
>
> This is a well-known phenomenon called "embedment".
>
> Honda put out a notice to their dealership techs many years ago
> explaining it.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/A930200.pdf

that doesn't call it "embedment" - it simply says to lube the thread on
reassembly.

 

jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
news:gyHcl.36567$QB1.13298@fe01.news.easynews.com:

> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:55:11 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>

>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a well-known phenomenon called "embedment".
>>
>> Honda put out a notice to their dealership techs many years ago
>> explaining it.
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/A930200.pdf
>
> that doesn't call it "embedment" - it simply says to lube the thread
> on reassembly.
>
>


It says the threads "stick together". That's embedment.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:05:11 +0000, Tegger wrote:

> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
> news:gyHcl.36567$QB1.13298@fe01.news.easynews.com:
>
>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:55:11 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>>
>>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a well-known phenomenon called "embedment".
>>>
>>> Honda put out a notice to their dealership techs many years ago
>>> explaining it.
>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/A930200.pdf
>>
>> that doesn't call it "embedment" - it simply says to lube the thread on
>> reassembly.
>>
>>
>>
>
> It says the threads "stick together". That's embedment.

that's just waffle terminology. real deal is asperity welding, wear,
etc. and it doesn't address potential for tightening as components are
subject to rotation with crank acceleration/deceleration.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/2911225312/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/2911225310/

 

jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:IJKcl.18375$Zn4.4264
@fe07.news.easynews.com:

> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:05:11 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>

>>>
>>
>> It says the threads "stick together". That's embedment.
>
> that's just waffle terminology. real deal is asperity welding, wear,
> etc.



Then why didn't Honda just say so?

It would have cost them nothing more to say that instead of saying that the
threads "stick together".




> and it doesn't address potential for tightening as components are
> subject to rotation with crank acceleration/deceleration.



A properly tightened fastener does not rotate after final tightening. If
there is relative motion, the fastener will come loose or snap, depending
on the nature of the motion.




--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:56:01 +0000, Tegger wrote:

> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:IJKcl.18375$Zn4.4264
> @fe07.news.easynews.com:
>
>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:05:11 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>>
>>
>
>>>>
>>> It says the threads "stick together". That's embedment.
>>
>> that's just waffle terminology. real deal is asperity welding, wear,
>> etc.
>
>
>
> Then why didn't Honda just say so?
>
> It would have cost them nothing more to say that instead of saying that
> the threads "stick together".

there's a /ton/ of things they don't say. they don't discuss
microstructure, corrosion, plating, surface texture, thermal gradients,
fatigue, tribology, etc. they [sensibly] stick to the stuff relevant to
their target audience "oil it and stick to spec on torque".



>
>
>
>
>> and it doesn't address potential for tightening as components are
>> subject to rotation with crank acceleration/deceleration.
>
>
>
> A properly tightened fastener does not rotate after final tightening.

not so. people don't generally worry about tightening, just loosening,
since that's when the wheels fall off.


> If
> there is relative motion, the fastener will come loose or snap,
> depending on the nature of the motion.

no, there's a torque balance. r/h threads on the r/h side of big rig lug
nuts for instance. precession has those tighten in service, but they
reach an equilibrium. now, that can be real tight, but they don't just
keep going till they snap. [tightness means there /is/ a reason the trade
uses honking great 3/4" or even 1" impact drivers for wheel changes you
know...]