"Robert Mozeleski" <moz@ncx.com> wrote in
news:_7mdnV27PuHJsTvfRVn-og@nni.com:

> On that note, i have just bought a 87' civic commuter car. 32k when i
> got it, over 40k now. It's a auto w/carbs, fueleconomy.gov says 28mpg
> for this model. I am getting about 32mpg, last tank was 33.8mpg but i
> am thinking of bumping up the timing a touch to see if it improves.


Bad idea. You can cause detonation, which can wreck your engine in short
order if bad enough. You have no knock sensor to save you. Leave it where
it is. Any mileage gain will be hardly noticeable.

Also, with the mileage you report, you may be running pretty lean already.
Do you have emissions testing in your area? If so, you can bring it in and
get the readings. That will be a *big* giveaway for how lean you're
running.


> The car is only driven on the highway back and forth to work, parked
> all weekend. I found the timing light in the garage (from the days of
> points),so i can see where it currently is at. Maybe different heat
> range plug along with a timing increase to improve mpg a little more?


Won't do a thing.

One thing that *can* result in an increase in mileage is the Motorvac
engine clean service. If there are significant deposits on your intake
valves and/or in the combustion chamber, Motorvac will remove much of it,
bringing the engine closer to its design specifications.

However, at 32mpg you sound like you're doing pretty well as it is. By
tinkering, you risk breaking what ain't broke. Our '99 Tercel gets about
33mpg on the highway.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

"Robert Mozeleski" <moz@ncx.com> wrote in
news:_7mdnV27PuHJsTvfRVn-og@nni.com:

> On that note, i have just bought a 87' civic commuter car. 32k when i
> got it, over 40k now. It's a auto w/carbs, fueleconomy.gov says 28mpg
> for this model. I am getting about 32mpg, last tank was 33.8mpg but i
> am thinking of bumping up the timing a touch to see if it improves.


Bad idea. You can cause detonation, which can wreck your engine in short
order if bad enough. You have no knock sensor to save you. Leave it where
it is. Any mileage gain will be hardly noticeable.

Also, with the mileage you report, you may be running pretty lean already.
Do you have emissions testing in your area? If so, you can bring it in and
get the readings. That will be a *big* giveaway for how lean you're
running.


> The car is only driven on the highway back and forth to work, parked
> all weekend. I found the timing light in the garage (from the days of
> points),so i can see where it currently is at. Maybe different heat
> range plug along with a timing increase to improve mpg a little more?


Won't do a thing.

One thing that *can* result in an increase in mileage is the Motorvac
engine clean service. If there are significant deposits on your intake
valves and/or in the combustion chamber, Motorvac will remove much of it,
bringing the engine closer to its design specifications.

However, at 32mpg you sound like you're doing pretty well as it is. By
tinkering, you risk breaking what ain't broke. Our '99 Tercel gets about
33mpg on the highway.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

i'll bet he has no internal engine issue and it has a bad valve cover
gasket. my '89 civic had 148,000 miles on it when i bought it and it had a
nasty leak from the valve cover gasket. pull a spark plug and if it comes
out with oil soaked around the threads then you'll know what i'm talking
about. oil gathering from worn out spark plug tube gaskets. you'll know if
you're burning oil from a bad engine because smoke is going to show up
sooner or later.


-jeff
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns966E9731CC093tegger@207.14.113.17...
> "Matt" <rpi04@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:1118147475.236092.257940@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com:
>
>> I recently bought an '89 Civic with 165K miles for a commuter car, and
>> have a couple of questions that I hope someone can help me out with;
>>
>> 1. The car is consuming oil at about a qt/800 miles. The car does not
>> smoke at all though, not at startup nor 70 MPH. After searching past
>> posts I replaced the PCV valve. What else should I check?
>> 1a. One poster also suggested removing the PCV tube, but I couldn't
>> reach the clamp at the far end. Would just cleaing it out with a
>> pipe-cleaner pose a risk or is there a better way to get at it?
>
>
> Pull off the end you can reach and stick a pipe cleaner or Q-Tip in there.
> If it comes out loaded with sludge, then you've got deeper problems than
> just a plugged breather. If it's clear, then you're fine.
>
> The car will not smoke until you're down to 100-200 miles/qt. Before then
> the cat burns it all off.
>
> If you have no external leaks, then you either have
> 1) Worn oil control rings, or
> 2) Worn valve guide oil seals.
>
> Watch the exhaust first thing in the morning after the car has sat
> overnight. If there is NO puff of blue smoke as the engiine fires, then
> the
> valve guide seals are OK and your rings are bad. It can also be a
> combination of both rings and seals.
>
> Seal replacement basically means removing the head, and it's not cheap.
>
> My guess is your rings are bad. At least $2,000 to fix that.
>
>
>>
>> 2. While replacing the brake pads I noticed that the right caliper is
>> leaking brake fluid around the piston. I have never changed calipers
>> before, but it looks like a fairly straightforward operation to me.
>
>
> It is.
>
> Your caliper piston is rusty and has damaged the hydraulic seal, or else
> the rust on the caliper body has migrated in far enough to push the seal
> our of its groove in the caliper body. Either way, replacement is the
> cure.
> If it's the piston causing the leak, a rebuild is possible.
>
> More info here, not hydraulically related:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes1.html
>
>
>
>> Any advice, suggestions or things I should know before I try it (or is
>> this something better left to the pros)?
>
>
> Don't get any dirt in there while you have the hydraulics open.
>
> Go to www.googlegroups.com for:
> tegger saran caliper
>
> for another post on this subject.
>
>
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

i'll bet he has no internal engine issue and it has a bad valve cover
gasket. my '89 civic had 148,000 miles on it when i bought it and it had a
nasty leak from the valve cover gasket. pull a spark plug and if it comes
out with oil soaked around the threads then you'll know what i'm talking
about. oil gathering from worn out spark plug tube gaskets. you'll know if
you're burning oil from a bad engine because smoke is going to show up
sooner or later.


-jeff
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns966E9731CC093tegger@207.14.113.17...
> "Matt" <rpi04@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:1118147475.236092.257940@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com:
>
>> I recently bought an '89 Civic with 165K miles for a commuter car, and
>> have a couple of questions that I hope someone can help me out with;
>>
>> 1. The car is consuming oil at about a qt/800 miles. The car does not
>> smoke at all though, not at startup nor 70 MPH. After searching past
>> posts I replaced the PCV valve. What else should I check?
>> 1a. One poster also suggested removing the PCV tube, but I couldn't
>> reach the clamp at the far end. Would just cleaing it out with a
>> pipe-cleaner pose a risk or is there a better way to get at it?
>
>
> Pull off the end you can reach and stick a pipe cleaner or Q-Tip in there.
> If it comes out loaded with sludge, then you've got deeper problems than
> just a plugged breather. If it's clear, then you're fine.
>
> The car will not smoke until you're down to 100-200 miles/qt. Before then
> the cat burns it all off.
>
> If you have no external leaks, then you either have
> 1) Worn oil control rings, or
> 2) Worn valve guide oil seals.
>
> Watch the exhaust first thing in the morning after the car has sat
> overnight. If there is NO puff of blue smoke as the engiine fires, then
> the
> valve guide seals are OK and your rings are bad. It can also be a
> combination of both rings and seals.
>
> Seal replacement basically means removing the head, and it's not cheap.
>
> My guess is your rings are bad. At least $2,000 to fix that.
>
>
>>
>> 2. While replacing the brake pads I noticed that the right caliper is
>> leaking brake fluid around the piston. I have never changed calipers
>> before, but it looks like a fairly straightforward operation to me.
>
>
> It is.
>
> Your caliper piston is rusty and has damaged the hydraulic seal, or else
> the rust on the caliper body has migrated in far enough to push the seal
> our of its groove in the caliper body. Either way, replacement is the
> cure.
> If it's the piston causing the leak, a rebuild is possible.
>
> More info here, not hydraulically related:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes1.html
>
>
>
>> Any advice, suggestions or things I should know before I try it (or is
>> this something better left to the pros)?
>
>
> Don't get any dirt in there while you have the hydraulics open.
>
> Go to www.googlegroups.com for:
> tegger saran caliper
>
> for another post on this subject.
>
>
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

TeGGeR® wrote:
> "Matt" <rpi04@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:1118147475.236092.257940@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com:
>
>
>>I recently bought an '89 Civic with 165K miles for a commuter car, and
>>have a couple of questions that I hope someone can help me out with;
>>
>>1. The car is consuming oil at about a qt/800 miles. The car does not
>>smoke at all though, not at startup nor 70 MPH. After searching past
>>posts I replaced the PCV valve. What else should I check?
>>1a. One poster also suggested removing the PCV tube, but I couldn't
>>reach the clamp at the far end. Would just cleaing it out with a
>>pipe-cleaner pose a risk or is there a better way to get at it?
>
>
>
> Pull off the end you can reach and stick a pipe cleaner or Q-Tip in there.
> If it comes out loaded with sludge, then you've got deeper problems than
> just a plugged breather. If it's clear, then you're fine.
>
> The car will not smoke until you're down to 100-200 miles/qt. Before then
> the cat burns it all off.
>
> If you have no external leaks, then you either have
> 1) Worn oil control rings, or
> 2) Worn valve guide oil seals.
>
> Watch the exhaust first thing in the morning after the car has sat
> overnight. If there is NO puff of blue smoke as the engiine fires, then the
> valve guide seals are OK and your rings are bad. It can also be a
> combination of both rings and seals.
>
> Seal replacement basically means removing the head, and it's not cheap.
>
> My guess is your rings are bad. At least $2,000 to fix that.

i vote the o.p. spends some time addressing the easily fixable problems
before stressing about serious [expensive] mechanical stuff. especially
using a "non-leaky" oil. if he does everything else and it doesn't
reduce oil consumption, sure, fix the motor. but i'll bet you lunch
that it does. especially on the 89 civic. it doesn't have the ring
problems of the 88 accord discussed recently. my crx has 305k, near
enough, and no appreciable oil consumption unless it's thrashed [!].
even then, it's less than a quart between changes.

>
>
>
>>2. While replacing the brake pads I noticed that the right caliper is
>>leaking brake fluid around the piston. I have never changed calipers
>>before, but it looks like a fairly straightforward operation to me.
>
>
>
> It is.
>
> Your caliper piston is rusty and has damaged the hydraulic seal, or else
> the rust on the caliper body has migrated in far enough to push the seal
> our of its groove in the caliper body. Either way, replacement is the cure.
> If it's the piston causing the leak, a rebuild is possible.
>
> More info here, not hydraulically related:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes1.html
>
>
>
>
>>Any advice, suggestions or things I should know before I try it (or is
>>this something better left to the pros)?
>
>
>
> Don't get any dirt in there while you have the hydraulics open.
>
> Go to www.googlegroups.com for:
> tegger saran caliper
>
> for another post on this subject.
>
>
>

 

TeGGeR® wrote:
> "Matt" <rpi04@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:1118147475.236092.257940@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com:
>
>
>>I recently bought an '89 Civic with 165K miles for a commuter car, and
>>have a couple of questions that I hope someone can help me out with;
>>
>>1. The car is consuming oil at about a qt/800 miles. The car does not
>>smoke at all though, not at startup nor 70 MPH. After searching past
>>posts I replaced the PCV valve. What else should I check?
>>1a. One poster also suggested removing the PCV tube, but I couldn't
>>reach the clamp at the far end. Would just cleaing it out with a
>>pipe-cleaner pose a risk or is there a better way to get at it?
>
>
>
> Pull off the end you can reach and stick a pipe cleaner or Q-Tip in there.
> If it comes out loaded with sludge, then you've got deeper problems than
> just a plugged breather. If it's clear, then you're fine.
>
> The car will not smoke until you're down to 100-200 miles/qt. Before then
> the cat burns it all off.
>
> If you have no external leaks, then you either have
> 1) Worn oil control rings, or
> 2) Worn valve guide oil seals.
>
> Watch the exhaust first thing in the morning after the car has sat
> overnight. If there is NO puff of blue smoke as the engiine fires, then the
> valve guide seals are OK and your rings are bad. It can also be a
> combination of both rings and seals.
>
> Seal replacement basically means removing the head, and it's not cheap.
>
> My guess is your rings are bad. At least $2,000 to fix that.

i vote the o.p. spends some time addressing the easily fixable problems
before stressing about serious [expensive] mechanical stuff. especially
using a "non-leaky" oil. if he does everything else and it doesn't
reduce oil consumption, sure, fix the motor. but i'll bet you lunch
that it does. especially on the 89 civic. it doesn't have the ring
problems of the 88 accord discussed recently. my crx has 305k, near
enough, and no appreciable oil consumption unless it's thrashed [!].
even then, it's less than a quart between changes.

>
>
>
>>2. While replacing the brake pads I noticed that the right caliper is
>>leaking brake fluid around the piston. I have never changed calipers
>>before, but it looks like a fairly straightforward operation to me.
>
>
>
> It is.
>
> Your caliper piston is rusty and has damaged the hydraulic seal, or else
> the rust on the caliper body has migrated in far enough to push the seal
> our of its groove in the caliper body. Either way, replacement is the cure.
> If it's the piston causing the leak, a rebuild is possible.
>
> More info here, not hydraulically related:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rustybrakes/brakes1.html
>
>
>
>
>>Any advice, suggestions or things I should know before I try it (or is
>>this something better left to the pros)?
>
>
>
> Don't get any dirt in there while you have the hydraulics open.
>
> Go to www.googlegroups.com for:
> tegger saran caliper
>
> for another post on this subject.
>
>
>

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:WIydnc_6UMD86DvfRVn-2w@speakeasy.net:

> TeGGeR® wrote:

>> My guess is your rings are bad. At least $2,000 to fix that.
>
> i vote the o.p. spends some time addressing the easily fixable
> problems before stressing about serious [expensive] mechanical stuff.



For sure.

My price was meant to be a deterrent.



> especially using a "non-leaky" oil.


Now that's something I never thought of. Supposedly those "high-mileage"
oil formulations can help swell seals and get a little more useful life out
of them. It's worth a try.

Also, using a heavier regular oil can often reduce oil consumption enough
to extend the engine's useful life. Something like 20W-50.



> if he does everything else and it
> doesn't reduce oil consumption, sure, fix the motor.



An '89 Civic is "basic transportation" to the insurance company ($500-
$1,500), and about $1,000 on the used car market. Putting $2K into fixing
the motor does not make economic sense unless the car is in unusually good
condition and has a known history.



> but i'll bet you
> lunch that it does. especially on the 89 civic. it doesn't have the
> ring problems of the 88 accord discussed recently. my crx has 305k,
> near enough, and no appreciable oil consumption unless it's thrashed
> [!].
> even then, it's less than a quart between changes.



Lots of city driving and short trips will eat up the oil control rings
relatively quickly. Highway driving will see them lasting longer.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:WIydnc_6UMD86DvfRVn-2w@speakeasy.net:

> TeGGeR® wrote:

>> My guess is your rings are bad. At least $2,000 to fix that.
>
> i vote the o.p. spends some time addressing the easily fixable
> problems before stressing about serious [expensive] mechanical stuff.



For sure.

My price was meant to be a deterrent.



> especially using a "non-leaky" oil.


Now that's something I never thought of. Supposedly those "high-mileage"
oil formulations can help swell seals and get a little more useful life out
of them. It's worth a try.

Also, using a heavier regular oil can often reduce oil consumption enough
to extend the engine's useful life. Something like 20W-50.



> if he does everything else and it
> doesn't reduce oil consumption, sure, fix the motor.



An '89 Civic is "basic transportation" to the insurance company ($500-
$1,500), and about $1,000 on the used car market. Putting $2K into fixing
the motor does not make economic sense unless the car is in unusually good
condition and has a known history.



> but i'll bet you
> lunch that it does. especially on the 89 civic. it doesn't have the
> ring problems of the 88 accord discussed recently. my crx has 305k,
> near enough, and no appreciable oil consumption unless it's thrashed
> [!].
> even then, it's less than a quart between changes.



Lots of city driving and short trips will eat up the oil control rings
relatively quickly. Highway driving will see them lasting longer.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

"Robert Mozeleski" <moz@ncx.com> wrote in message
news:_7mdnV27PuHJsTvfRVn-og@nni.com...
> On that note, i have just bought a 87' civic commuter car. 32k when i got
> it, over 40k now. It's a auto w/carbs, fueleconomy.gov
> says 28mpg for this model. I am getting about 32mpg, last tank was 33.8mpg
> but i am thinking of bumping up the timing a touch to
> see if it improves.

Set the timing to factory specs and leave it there. Detonation is a very Bad
Thing - I once inherited a Volvo that had the timing advanced, and every
piston had a broken compression ring from the detonation. Could have been
worse... chipped valves and holes in pistons, things like that.

If you're doing better than the EPA estimate you are already pushing the
envelope.

Mike

 

"Robert Mozeleski" <moz@ncx.com> wrote in message
news:_7mdnV27PuHJsTvfRVn-og@nni.com...
> On that note, i have just bought a 87' civic commuter car. 32k when i got
> it, over 40k now. It's a auto w/carbs, fueleconomy.gov
> says 28mpg for this model. I am getting about 32mpg, last tank was 33.8mpg
> but i am thinking of bumping up the timing a touch to
> see if it improves.

Set the timing to factory specs and leave it there. Detonation is a very Bad
Thing - I once inherited a Volvo that had the timing advanced, and every
piston had a broken compression ring from the detonation. Could have been
worse... chipped valves and holes in pistons, things like that.

If you're doing better than the EPA estimate you are already pushing the
envelope.

Mike

 

hondaman wrote:
> i'll bet he has no internal engine issue and it has a bad valve cover
> gasket. my '89 civic had 148,000 miles on it when i bought it and it had a
> nasty leak from the valve cover gasket. pull a spark plug and if it comes
> out with oil soaked around the threads then you'll know what i'm talking
> about. oil gathering from worn out spark plug tube gaskets. you'll know if
> you're burning oil from a bad engine because smoke is going to show up
> sooner or later.
>

I changed the plugs soon after I bought it and there was only a small
amount of oil on the threads of two. I have been using the "high
mileage" Valvoline (though this weekend was just the third time).
One thing I forgot to mention in the original post was that I noticed a
significant amount of oil buildup on the pan when I was draining it. I
can't tell where it's coming from, but it looks like too much to be
just from road grime and such.

I am headed to the auto parts store this afternoon, and will start with
the valve cover gasket and spark plug seals.

One more question: Is replacing weatherstripping around the doors a
do-it-yourself type of thing? (The passenger side is pretty rough,
pulling away and sticking out.) I would think so, but want to make
sure there aren't any special tools I need before I pull it off and
then can't get a new one on.

Thanks

 

hondaman wrote:
> i'll bet he has no internal engine issue and it has a bad valve cover
> gasket. my '89 civic had 148,000 miles on it when i bought it and it had a
> nasty leak from the valve cover gasket. pull a spark plug and if it comes
> out with oil soaked around the threads then you'll know what i'm talking
> about. oil gathering from worn out spark plug tube gaskets. you'll know if
> you're burning oil from a bad engine because smoke is going to show up
> sooner or later.
>

I changed the plugs soon after I bought it and there was only a small
amount of oil on the threads of two. I have been using the "high
mileage" Valvoline (though this weekend was just the third time).
One thing I forgot to mention in the original post was that I noticed a
significant amount of oil buildup on the pan when I was draining it. I
can't tell where it's coming from, but it looks like too much to be
just from road grime and such.

I am headed to the auto parts store this afternoon, and will start with
the valve cover gasket and spark plug seals.

One more question: Is replacing weatherstripping around the doors a
do-it-yourself type of thing? (The passenger side is pretty rough,
pulling away and sticking out.) I would think so, but want to make
sure there aren't any special tools I need before I pull it off and
then can't get a new one on.

Thanks

 

"Matt" <rpi04@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1118234441.711889.145580@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com:


>
> One more question: Is replacing weatherstripping around the doors a
> do-it-yourself type of thing? (The passenger side is pretty rough,
> pulling away and sticking out.)


Super easy.


> I would think so, but want to make
> sure there aren't any special tools I need before I pull it off and
> then can't get a new one on.



No special tools. Rip the rubber off, then go around with a pair of pliers
and pull out all the old little plastic clips. Be careful not to scratch
the paint when you do this.

As you feed the new rubber's clips in, make 100% sure they are going in the
correct holes! It you accidentally push one through the wrong hole, there
is a very good chance you will damage the new rubber attempting to remove
it.

Note that some weatherstripping has color-coded clips. The odd-colored one
will go in a specific hole, such as the middle, etc.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

"Matt" <rpi04@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1118234441.711889.145580@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com:


>
> One more question: Is replacing weatherstripping around the doors a
> do-it-yourself type of thing? (The passenger side is pretty rough,
> pulling away and sticking out.)


Super easy.


> I would think so, but want to make
> sure there aren't any special tools I need before I pull it off and
> then can't get a new one on.



No special tools. Rip the rubber off, then go around with a pair of pliers
and pull out all the old little plastic clips. Be careful not to scratch
the paint when you do this.

As you feed the new rubber's clips in, make 100% sure they are going in the
correct holes! It you accidentally push one through the wrong hole, there
is a very good chance you will damage the new rubber attempting to remove
it.

Note that some weatherstripping has color-coded clips. The odd-colored one
will go in a specific hole, such as the middle, etc.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

Thanks for the reply, well said, i'll leave all alone. I'm happy with the mpg just wanted to try for a few more. No emission
testing here in PA. other than visual and gas cap check. Tailpipe does look black though, plugs are fine, i guess you don't see
the gray color anymore.

"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message