Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:

> TeGGeR® wrote:
>> Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>> news:v3REg.410737$iF6.53449@pd7tw2no:
>>
>>
>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>
>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>news:vINEg.420523$IK3.280117@pd7tw1no:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>He's GOT a Haynes manual for this thing, which he can't find... i'm
>>>>>SO much more useful with a good wiring schematic in front of me
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Click Auto Repair Reference Center from the menu at left.
>>>>Navigate to your car. There are wiring diagrams.
>>>
>>>Sweet, thanks!
>>>
>>>Meanwhile... he's determined there's no power to the injectors.
>>>Ground is good, but no signal into them. Waiting to see if he'll
>>>actually bother to check the ECM codes (I sent him the link from your
>>>FAQ).
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Power to the injectors is from the line that comes from Terminal 7 of
>> the Main Relay. The fuel pump and the injectors receive power from
>> the same basic source, so the trouble is probably a disconnected wire
>> between the Main Relay and the injector harness.
>
> Well, I actually got my hands on the car this afternoon and, with the
> help of the schematic (you ARE the man!), I think I found the source
> of the problem: the fuel pump is for some reason sinking TONS of
> current and causing the voltage throughout the car to drop
> excessively.
>
> Specifically: checking voltage at the injectors, I get only about 8.5V
> while they're activated, and closer to 5.5V when cranking. Voltage
> *at the battery* drops from about 12V to just barely over 8V for a few
> seconds as soon as the key is switched to Ignition, then jumps back up
> to 12V, nicely coinciding with the brief time the main relay switches
> on the pump and injectors. Connecting jumper cables to my running car,
> thus providing 14V to the system, allowed the car to ALMOST start as
> system voltage dropped to about 9.5V with ignition on, and 8.5V while
> cranking - it tried to catch a few times, but just couldn't quite fire
> up.
>
> After a little more tracing, I ruled out the injectors and internal
> wiring problems... looking at the schematic, there are only three
> things on that circuit - the two injectors and the fuel pump - so I
> figured either there was a "near-short" somewhere in its wire (a dead
> short would have blown the fuse), or the pump was having issues... as
> it turned out, unplugging the pump lead got rid of the strange voltage
> drop.
>
> So I'm thinking the pump probably has bad bearings or sleeves, or is
> badly gummed up, or in some other way is being prevented from turning
> freely, and thus is drawing excessive current, enough to drop the
> system voltage too low to operate the ECM and/or injectors, but not
> enough to pop the related fuse.
>
> Lordco was closed by this time, so my buddy's gonna pick up a new fuel
> pump tomorrow... but he'll be installing it on his own, as I'll be
> down at the football game!
>
> Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!
>

It might be just a clogged fuel pickup.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:

> TeGGeR® wrote:
>> Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>> news:v3REg.410737$iF6.53449@pd7tw2no:
>>
>>
>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>
>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>news:vINEg.420523$IK3.280117@pd7tw1no:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>He's GOT a Haynes manual for this thing, which he can't find... i'm
>>>>>SO much more useful with a good wiring schematic in front of me
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Click Auto Repair Reference Center from the menu at left.
>>>>Navigate to your car. There are wiring diagrams.
>>>
>>>Sweet, thanks!
>>>
>>>Meanwhile... he's determined there's no power to the injectors.
>>>Ground is good, but no signal into them. Waiting to see if he'll
>>>actually bother to check the ECM codes (I sent him the link from your
>>>FAQ).
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Power to the injectors is from the line that comes from Terminal 7 of
>> the Main Relay. The fuel pump and the injectors receive power from
>> the same basic source, so the trouble is probably a disconnected wire
>> between the Main Relay and the injector harness.
>
> Well, I actually got my hands on the car this afternoon and, with the
> help of the schematic (you ARE the man!), I think I found the source
> of the problem: the fuel pump is for some reason sinking TONS of
> current and causing the voltage throughout the car to drop
> excessively.
>
> Specifically: checking voltage at the injectors, I get only about 8.5V
> while they're activated, and closer to 5.5V when cranking. Voltage
> *at the battery* drops from about 12V to just barely over 8V for a few
> seconds as soon as the key is switched to Ignition, then jumps back up
> to 12V, nicely coinciding with the brief time the main relay switches
> on the pump and injectors. Connecting jumper cables to my running car,
> thus providing 14V to the system, allowed the car to ALMOST start as
> system voltage dropped to about 9.5V with ignition on, and 8.5V while
> cranking - it tried to catch a few times, but just couldn't quite fire
> up.
>
> After a little more tracing, I ruled out the injectors and internal
> wiring problems... looking at the schematic, there are only three
> things on that circuit - the two injectors and the fuel pump - so I
> figured either there was a "near-short" somewhere in its wire (a dead
> short would have blown the fuse), or the pump was having issues... as
> it turned out, unplugging the pump lead got rid of the strange voltage
> drop.
>
> So I'm thinking the pump probably has bad bearings or sleeves, or is
> badly gummed up, or in some other way is being prevented from turning
> freely, and thus is drawing excessive current, enough to drop the
> system voltage too low to operate the ECM and/or injectors, but not
> enough to pop the related fuse.
>
> Lordco was closed by this time, so my buddy's gonna pick up a new fuel
> pump tomorrow... but he'll be installing it on his own, as I'll be
> down at the football game!
>
> Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!
>

It might be just a clogged fuel pickup.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:

> TeGGeR® wrote:
>> Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>> news:v3REg.410737$iF6.53449@pd7tw2no:
>>
>>
>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>
>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>news:vINEg.420523$IK3.280117@pd7tw1no:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>He's GOT a Haynes manual for this thing, which he can't find... i'm
>>>>>SO much more useful with a good wiring schematic in front of me
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Click Auto Repair Reference Center from the menu at left.
>>>>Navigate to your car. There are wiring diagrams.
>>>
>>>Sweet, thanks!
>>>
>>>Meanwhile... he's determined there's no power to the injectors.
>>>Ground is good, but no signal into them. Waiting to see if he'll
>>>actually bother to check the ECM codes (I sent him the link from your
>>>FAQ).
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Power to the injectors is from the line that comes from Terminal 7 of
>> the Main Relay. The fuel pump and the injectors receive power from
>> the same basic source, so the trouble is probably a disconnected wire
>> between the Main Relay and the injector harness.
>
> Well, I actually got my hands on the car this afternoon and, with the
> help of the schematic (you ARE the man!), I think I found the source
> of the problem: the fuel pump is for some reason sinking TONS of
> current and causing the voltage throughout the car to drop
> excessively.
>
> Specifically: checking voltage at the injectors, I get only about 8.5V
> while they're activated, and closer to 5.5V when cranking. Voltage
> *at the battery* drops from about 12V to just barely over 8V for a few
> seconds as soon as the key is switched to Ignition, then jumps back up
> to 12V, nicely coinciding with the brief time the main relay switches
> on the pump and injectors. Connecting jumper cables to my running car,
> thus providing 14V to the system, allowed the car to ALMOST start as
> system voltage dropped to about 9.5V with ignition on, and 8.5V while
> cranking - it tried to catch a few times, but just couldn't quite fire
> up.
>
> After a little more tracing, I ruled out the injectors and internal
> wiring problems... looking at the schematic, there are only three
> things on that circuit - the two injectors and the fuel pump - so I
> figured either there was a "near-short" somewhere in its wire (a dead
> short would have blown the fuse), or the pump was having issues... as
> it turned out, unplugging the pump lead got rid of the strange voltage
> drop.
>
> So I'm thinking the pump probably has bad bearings or sleeves, or is
> badly gummed up, or in some other way is being prevented from turning
> freely, and thus is drawing excessive current, enough to drop the
> system voltage too low to operate the ECM and/or injectors, but not
> enough to pop the related fuse.
>
> Lordco was closed by this time, so my buddy's gonna pick up a new fuel
> pump tomorrow... but he'll be installing it on his own, as I'll be
> down at the football game!
>
> Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!
>

It might be just a clogged fuel pickup.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
> news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:
>
>
>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>
>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>news:v3REg.410737$iF6.53449@pd7tw2no:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>>news:vINEg.420523$IK3.280117@pd7tw1no:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>He's GOT a Haynes manual for this thing, which he can't find... i'm
>>>>>>SO much more useful with a good wiring schematic in front of me
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Click Auto Repair Reference Center from the menu at left.
>>>>>Navigate to your car. There are wiring diagrams.
>>>>
>>>>Sweet, thanks!
>>>>
>>>>Meanwhile... he's determined there's no power to the injectors.
>>>>Ground is good, but no signal into them. Waiting to see if he'll
>>>>actually bother to check the ECM codes (I sent him the link from your
>>>>FAQ).
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Power to the injectors is from the line that comes from Terminal 7 of
>>>the Main Relay. The fuel pump and the injectors receive power from
>>>the same basic source, so the trouble is probably a disconnected wire
>>>between the Main Relay and the injector harness.
>>
>>Well, I actually got my hands on the car this afternoon and, with the
>>help of the schematic (you ARE the man!), I think I found the source
>>of the problem: the fuel pump is for some reason sinking TONS of
>>current and causing the voltage throughout the car to drop
>>excessively.
>>
>>Specifically: checking voltage at the injectors, I get only about 8.5V
>>while they're activated, and closer to 5.5V when cranking. Voltage
>>*at the battery* drops from about 12V to just barely over 8V for a few
>>seconds as soon as the key is switched to Ignition, then jumps back up
>>to 12V, nicely coinciding with the brief time the main relay switches
>>on the pump and injectors. Connecting jumper cables to my running car,
>>thus providing 14V to the system, allowed the car to ALMOST start as
>>system voltage dropped to about 9.5V with ignition on, and 8.5V while
>>cranking - it tried to catch a few times, but just couldn't quite fire
>>up.
>>
>>After a little more tracing, I ruled out the injectors and internal
>>wiring problems... looking at the schematic, there are only three
>>things on that circuit - the two injectors and the fuel pump - so I
>>figured either there was a "near-short" somewhere in its wire (a dead
>>short would have blown the fuse), or the pump was having issues... as
>>it turned out, unplugging the pump lead got rid of the strange voltage
>>drop.
>>
>>So I'm thinking the pump probably has bad bearings or sleeves, or is
>>badly gummed up, or in some other way is being prevented from turning
>>freely, and thus is drawing excessive current, enough to drop the
>>system voltage too low to operate the ECM and/or injectors, but not
>>enough to pop the related fuse.
>>
>>Lordco was closed by this time, so my buddy's gonna pick up a new fuel
>>pump tomorrow... but he'll be installing it on his own, as I'll be
>>down at the football game!
>>
>>Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!
>>
>
>
> It might be just a clogged fuel pickup.

If that was the case, there'd be no pressure on the pump and it would spin
freely; it wouldn't be drawing a ton of current.

 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
> news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:
>
>
>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>
>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>news:v3REg.410737$iF6.53449@pd7tw2no:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>>news:vINEg.420523$IK3.280117@pd7tw1no:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>He's GOT a Haynes manual for this thing, which he can't find... i'm
>>>>>>SO much more useful with a good wiring schematic in front of me
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Click Auto Repair Reference Center from the menu at left.
>>>>>Navigate to your car. There are wiring diagrams.
>>>>
>>>>Sweet, thanks!
>>>>
>>>>Meanwhile... he's determined there's no power to the injectors.
>>>>Ground is good, but no signal into them. Waiting to see if he'll
>>>>actually bother to check the ECM codes (I sent him the link from your
>>>>FAQ).
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Power to the injectors is from the line that comes from Terminal 7 of
>>>the Main Relay. The fuel pump and the injectors receive power from
>>>the same basic source, so the trouble is probably a disconnected wire
>>>between the Main Relay and the injector harness.
>>
>>Well, I actually got my hands on the car this afternoon and, with the
>>help of the schematic (you ARE the man!), I think I found the source
>>of the problem: the fuel pump is for some reason sinking TONS of
>>current and causing the voltage throughout the car to drop
>>excessively.
>>
>>Specifically: checking voltage at the injectors, I get only about 8.5V
>>while they're activated, and closer to 5.5V when cranking. Voltage
>>*at the battery* drops from about 12V to just barely over 8V for a few
>>seconds as soon as the key is switched to Ignition, then jumps back up
>>to 12V, nicely coinciding with the brief time the main relay switches
>>on the pump and injectors. Connecting jumper cables to my running car,
>>thus providing 14V to the system, allowed the car to ALMOST start as
>>system voltage dropped to about 9.5V with ignition on, and 8.5V while
>>cranking - it tried to catch a few times, but just couldn't quite fire
>>up.
>>
>>After a little more tracing, I ruled out the injectors and internal
>>wiring problems... looking at the schematic, there are only three
>>things on that circuit - the two injectors and the fuel pump - so I
>>figured either there was a "near-short" somewhere in its wire (a dead
>>short would have blown the fuse), or the pump was having issues... as
>>it turned out, unplugging the pump lead got rid of the strange voltage
>>drop.
>>
>>So I'm thinking the pump probably has bad bearings or sleeves, or is
>>badly gummed up, or in some other way is being prevented from turning
>>freely, and thus is drawing excessive current, enough to drop the
>>system voltage too low to operate the ECM and/or injectors, but not
>>enough to pop the related fuse.
>>
>>Lordco was closed by this time, so my buddy's gonna pick up a new fuel
>>pump tomorrow... but he'll be installing it on his own, as I'll be
>>down at the football game!
>>
>>Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!
>>
>
>
> It might be just a clogged fuel pickup.

If that was the case, there'd be no pressure on the pump and it would spin
freely; it wouldn't be drawing a ton of current.

 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
> news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:
>
>
>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>
>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>news:v3REg.410737$iF6.53449@pd7tw2no:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>>news:vINEg.420523$IK3.280117@pd7tw1no:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>He's GOT a Haynes manual for this thing, which he can't find... i'm
>>>>>>SO much more useful with a good wiring schematic in front of me
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Click Auto Repair Reference Center from the menu at left.
>>>>>Navigate to your car. There are wiring diagrams.
>>>>
>>>>Sweet, thanks!
>>>>
>>>>Meanwhile... he's determined there's no power to the injectors.
>>>>Ground is good, but no signal into them. Waiting to see if he'll
>>>>actually bother to check the ECM codes (I sent him the link from your
>>>>FAQ).
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Power to the injectors is from the line that comes from Terminal 7 of
>>>the Main Relay. The fuel pump and the injectors receive power from
>>>the same basic source, so the trouble is probably a disconnected wire
>>>between the Main Relay and the injector harness.
>>
>>Well, I actually got my hands on the car this afternoon and, with the
>>help of the schematic (you ARE the man!), I think I found the source
>>of the problem: the fuel pump is for some reason sinking TONS of
>>current and causing the voltage throughout the car to drop
>>excessively.
>>
>>Specifically: checking voltage at the injectors, I get only about 8.5V
>>while they're activated, and closer to 5.5V when cranking. Voltage
>>*at the battery* drops from about 12V to just barely over 8V for a few
>>seconds as soon as the key is switched to Ignition, then jumps back up
>>to 12V, nicely coinciding with the brief time the main relay switches
>>on the pump and injectors. Connecting jumper cables to my running car,
>>thus providing 14V to the system, allowed the car to ALMOST start as
>>system voltage dropped to about 9.5V with ignition on, and 8.5V while
>>cranking - it tried to catch a few times, but just couldn't quite fire
>>up.
>>
>>After a little more tracing, I ruled out the injectors and internal
>>wiring problems... looking at the schematic, there are only three
>>things on that circuit - the two injectors and the fuel pump - so I
>>figured either there was a "near-short" somewhere in its wire (a dead
>>short would have blown the fuse), or the pump was having issues... as
>>it turned out, unplugging the pump lead got rid of the strange voltage
>>drop.
>>
>>So I'm thinking the pump probably has bad bearings or sleeves, or is
>>badly gummed up, or in some other way is being prevented from turning
>>freely, and thus is drawing excessive current, enough to drop the
>>system voltage too low to operate the ECM and/or injectors, but not
>>enough to pop the related fuse.
>>
>>Lordco was closed by this time, so my buddy's gonna pick up a new fuel
>>pump tomorrow... but he'll be installing it on his own, as I'll be
>>down at the football game!
>>
>>Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!
>>
>
>
> It might be just a clogged fuel pickup.

If that was the case, there'd be no pressure on the pump and it would spin
freely; it wouldn't be drawing a ton of current.

 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
> news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:
>
>
>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>
>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>news:v3REg.410737$iF6.53449@pd7tw2no:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>>news:vINEg.420523$IK3.280117@pd7tw1no:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>He's GOT a Haynes manual for this thing, which he can't find... i'm
>>>>>>SO much more useful with a good wiring schematic in front of me
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Click Auto Repair Reference Center from the menu at left.
>>>>>Navigate to your car. There are wiring diagrams.
>>>>
>>>>Sweet, thanks!
>>>>
>>>>Meanwhile... he's determined there's no power to the injectors.
>>>>Ground is good, but no signal into them. Waiting to see if he'll
>>>>actually bother to check the ECM codes (I sent him the link from your
>>>>FAQ).
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Power to the injectors is from the line that comes from Terminal 7 of
>>>the Main Relay. The fuel pump and the injectors receive power from
>>>the same basic source, so the trouble is probably a disconnected wire
>>>between the Main Relay and the injector harness.
>>
>>Well, I actually got my hands on the car this afternoon and, with the
>>help of the schematic (you ARE the man!), I think I found the source
>>of the problem: the fuel pump is for some reason sinking TONS of
>>current and causing the voltage throughout the car to drop
>>excessively.
>>
>>Specifically: checking voltage at the injectors, I get only about 8.5V
>>while they're activated, and closer to 5.5V when cranking. Voltage
>>*at the battery* drops from about 12V to just barely over 8V for a few
>>seconds as soon as the key is switched to Ignition, then jumps back up
>>to 12V, nicely coinciding with the brief time the main relay switches
>>on the pump and injectors. Connecting jumper cables to my running car,
>>thus providing 14V to the system, allowed the car to ALMOST start as
>>system voltage dropped to about 9.5V with ignition on, and 8.5V while
>>cranking - it tried to catch a few times, but just couldn't quite fire
>>up.
>>
>>After a little more tracing, I ruled out the injectors and internal
>>wiring problems... looking at the schematic, there are only three
>>things on that circuit - the two injectors and the fuel pump - so I
>>figured either there was a "near-short" somewhere in its wire (a dead
>>short would have blown the fuse), or the pump was having issues... as
>>it turned out, unplugging the pump lead got rid of the strange voltage
>>drop.
>>
>>So I'm thinking the pump probably has bad bearings or sleeves, or is
>>badly gummed up, or in some other way is being prevented from turning
>>freely, and thus is drawing excessive current, enough to drop the
>>system voltage too low to operate the ECM and/or injectors, but not
>>enough to pop the related fuse.
>>
>>Lordco was closed by this time, so my buddy's gonna pick up a new fuel
>>pump tomorrow... but he'll be installing it on his own, as I'll be
>>down at the football game!
>>
>>Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!
>>
>
>
> It might be just a clogged fuel pickup.

If that was the case, there'd be no pressure on the pump and it would spin
freely; it wouldn't be drawing a ton of current.

 

Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:ehoFg.422243$iF6.226183@pd7tw2no:

> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>> news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:
>>
>>
>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>
>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>news:v3REg.410737$iF6.53449@pd7tw2no:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>>>news:vINEg.420523$IK3.280117@pd7tw1no:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>He's GOT a Haynes manual for this thing, which he can't find...
>>>>>>>i'm SO much more useful with a good wiring schematic in front of
>>>>>>>me
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Click Auto Repair Reference Center from the menu at left.
>>>>>>Navigate to your car. There are wiring diagrams.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sweet, thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>Meanwhile... he's determined there's no power to the injectors.
>>>>>Ground is good, but no signal into them. Waiting to see if he'll
>>>>>actually bother to check the ECM codes (I sent him the link from
>>>>>your FAQ).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Power to the injectors is from the line that comes from Terminal 7
>>>>of the Main Relay. The fuel pump and the injectors receive power
>>>>from the same basic source, so the trouble is probably a
>>>>disconnected wire between the Main Relay and the injector harness.
>>>
>>>Well, I actually got my hands on the car this afternoon and, with the
>>>help of the schematic (you ARE the man!), I think I found the source
>>>of the problem: the fuel pump is for some reason sinking TONS of
>>>current and causing the voltage throughout the car to drop
>>>excessively.
>>>
>>>Specifically: checking voltage at the injectors, I get only about
>>>8.5V while they're activated, and closer to 5.5V when cranking.
>>>Voltage *at the battery* drops from about 12V to just barely over 8V
>>>for a few seconds as soon as the key is switched to Ignition, then
>>>jumps back up to 12V, nicely coinciding with the brief time the main
>>>relay switches on the pump and injectors. Connecting jumper cables to
>>>my running car, thus providing 14V to the system, allowed the car to
>>>ALMOST start as system voltage dropped to about 9.5V with ignition
>>>on, and 8.5V while cranking - it tried to catch a few times, but just
>>>couldn't quite fire up.
>>>
>>>After a little more tracing, I ruled out the injectors and internal
>>>wiring problems... looking at the schematic, there are only three
>>>things on that circuit - the two injectors and the fuel pump - so I
>>>figured either there was a "near-short" somewhere in its wire (a dead
>>>short would have blown the fuse), or the pump was having issues... as
>>>it turned out, unplugging the pump lead got rid of the strange
>>>voltage drop.
>>>
>>>So I'm thinking the pump probably has bad bearings or sleeves, or is
>>>badly gummed up, or in some other way is being prevented from turning
>>>freely, and thus is drawing excessive current, enough to drop the
>>>system voltage too low to operate the ECM and/or injectors, but not
>>>enough to pop the related fuse.
>>>
>>>Lordco was closed by this time, so my buddy's gonna pick up a new
>>>fuel pump tomorrow... but he'll be installing it on his own, as I'll
>>>be down at the football game!
>>>
>>>Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!
>>>
>>
>>
>> It might be just a clogged fuel pickup.
>
> If that was the case, there'd be no pressure on the pump and it would
> spin freely; it wouldn't be drawing a ton of current.
>

No,a pump trying to pull on a clogged line draws more current.
It spins freer under normal loads.Simple hydraulics.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:ehoFg.422243$iF6.226183@pd7tw2no:

> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>> news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:
>>
>>
>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>
>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>news:v3REg.410737$iF6.53449@pd7tw2no:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>>>news:vINEg.420523$IK3.280117@pd7tw1no:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>He's GOT a Haynes manual for this thing, which he can't find...
>>>>>>>i'm SO much more useful with a good wiring schematic in front of
>>>>>>>me
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Click Auto Repair Reference Center from the menu at left.
>>>>>>Navigate to your car. There are wiring diagrams.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sweet, thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>Meanwhile... he's determined there's no power to the injectors.
>>>>>Ground is good, but no signal into them. Waiting to see if he'll
>>>>>actually bother to check the ECM codes (I sent him the link from
>>>>>your FAQ).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Power to the injectors is from the line that comes from Terminal 7
>>>>of the Main Relay. The fuel pump and the injectors receive power
>>>>from the same basic source, so the trouble is probably a
>>>>disconnected wire between the Main Relay and the injector harness.
>>>
>>>Well, I actually got my hands on the car this afternoon and, with the
>>>help of the schematic (you ARE the man!), I think I found the source
>>>of the problem: the fuel pump is for some reason sinking TONS of
>>>current and causing the voltage throughout the car to drop
>>>excessively.
>>>
>>>Specifically: checking voltage at the injectors, I get only about
>>>8.5V while they're activated, and closer to 5.5V when cranking.
>>>Voltage *at the battery* drops from about 12V to just barely over 8V
>>>for a few seconds as soon as the key is switched to Ignition, then
>>>jumps back up to 12V, nicely coinciding with the brief time the main
>>>relay switches on the pump and injectors. Connecting jumper cables to
>>>my running car, thus providing 14V to the system, allowed the car to
>>>ALMOST start as system voltage dropped to about 9.5V with ignition
>>>on, and 8.5V while cranking - it tried to catch a few times, but just
>>>couldn't quite fire up.
>>>
>>>After a little more tracing, I ruled out the injectors and internal
>>>wiring problems... looking at the schematic, there are only three
>>>things on that circuit - the two injectors and the fuel pump - so I
>>>figured either there was a "near-short" somewhere in its wire (a dead
>>>short would have blown the fuse), or the pump was having issues... as
>>>it turned out, unplugging the pump lead got rid of the strange
>>>voltage drop.
>>>
>>>So I'm thinking the pump probably has bad bearings or sleeves, or is
>>>badly gummed up, or in some other way is being prevented from turning
>>>freely, and thus is drawing excessive current, enough to drop the
>>>system voltage too low to operate the ECM and/or injectors, but not
>>>enough to pop the related fuse.
>>>
>>>Lordco was closed by this time, so my buddy's gonna pick up a new
>>>fuel pump tomorrow... but he'll be installing it on his own, as I'll
>>>be down at the football game!
>>>
>>>Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!
>>>
>>
>>
>> It might be just a clogged fuel pickup.
>
> If that was the case, there'd be no pressure on the pump and it would
> spin freely; it wouldn't be drawing a ton of current.
>

No,a pump trying to pull on a clogged line draws more current.
It spins freer under normal loads.Simple hydraulics.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:ehoFg.422243$iF6.226183@pd7tw2no:

> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>> news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:
>>
>>
>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>
>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>news:v3REg.410737$iF6.53449@pd7tw2no:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>>>news:vINEg.420523$IK3.280117@pd7tw1no:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>He's GOT a Haynes manual for this thing, which he can't find...
>>>>>>>i'm SO much more useful with a good wiring schematic in front of
>>>>>>>me
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Click Auto Repair Reference Center from the menu at left.
>>>>>>Navigate to your car. There are wiring diagrams.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sweet, thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>Meanwhile... he's determined there's no power to the injectors.
>>>>>Ground is good, but no signal into them. Waiting to see if he'll
>>>>>actually bother to check the ECM codes (I sent him the link from
>>>>>your FAQ).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Power to the injectors is from the line that comes from Terminal 7
>>>>of the Main Relay. The fuel pump and the injectors receive power
>>>>from the same basic source, so the trouble is probably a
>>>>disconnected wire between the Main Relay and the injector harness.
>>>
>>>Well, I actually got my hands on the car this afternoon and, with the
>>>help of the schematic (you ARE the man!), I think I found the source
>>>of the problem: the fuel pump is for some reason sinking TONS of
>>>current and causing the voltage throughout the car to drop
>>>excessively.
>>>
>>>Specifically: checking voltage at the injectors, I get only about
>>>8.5V while they're activated, and closer to 5.5V when cranking.
>>>Voltage *at the battery* drops from about 12V to just barely over 8V
>>>for a few seconds as soon as the key is switched to Ignition, then
>>>jumps back up to 12V, nicely coinciding with the brief time the main
>>>relay switches on the pump and injectors. Connecting jumper cables to
>>>my running car, thus providing 14V to the system, allowed the car to
>>>ALMOST start as system voltage dropped to about 9.5V with ignition
>>>on, and 8.5V while cranking - it tried to catch a few times, but just
>>>couldn't quite fire up.
>>>
>>>After a little more tracing, I ruled out the injectors and internal
>>>wiring problems... looking at the schematic, there are only three
>>>things on that circuit - the two injectors and the fuel pump - so I
>>>figured either there was a "near-short" somewhere in its wire (a dead
>>>short would have blown the fuse), or the pump was having issues... as
>>>it turned out, unplugging the pump lead got rid of the strange
>>>voltage drop.
>>>
>>>So I'm thinking the pump probably has bad bearings or sleeves, or is
>>>badly gummed up, or in some other way is being prevented from turning
>>>freely, and thus is drawing excessive current, enough to drop the
>>>system voltage too low to operate the ECM and/or injectors, but not
>>>enough to pop the related fuse.
>>>
>>>Lordco was closed by this time, so my buddy's gonna pick up a new
>>>fuel pump tomorrow... but he'll be installing it on his own, as I'll
>>>be down at the football game!
>>>
>>>Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!
>>>
>>
>>
>> It might be just a clogged fuel pickup.
>
> If that was the case, there'd be no pressure on the pump and it would
> spin freely; it wouldn't be drawing a ton of current.
>

No,a pump trying to pull on a clogged line draws more current.
It spins freer under normal loads.Simple hydraulics.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:ehoFg.422243$iF6.226183@pd7tw2no:

> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>> news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:
>>
>>
>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>
>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>news:v3REg.410737$iF6.53449@pd7tw2no:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>TeGGeR® wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
>>>>>>news:vINEg.420523$IK3.280117@pd7tw1no:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>He's GOT a Haynes manual for this thing, which he can't find...
>>>>>>>i'm SO much more useful with a good wiring schematic in front of
>>>>>>>me
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Click Auto Repair Reference Center from the menu at left.
>>>>>>Navigate to your car. There are wiring diagrams.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sweet, thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>Meanwhile... he's determined there's no power to the injectors.
>>>>>Ground is good, but no signal into them. Waiting to see if he'll
>>>>>actually bother to check the ECM codes (I sent him the link from
>>>>>your FAQ).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Power to the injectors is from the line that comes from Terminal 7
>>>>of the Main Relay. The fuel pump and the injectors receive power
>>>>from the same basic source, so the trouble is probably a
>>>>disconnected wire between the Main Relay and the injector harness.
>>>
>>>Well, I actually got my hands on the car this afternoon and, with the
>>>help of the schematic (you ARE the man!), I think I found the source
>>>of the problem: the fuel pump is for some reason sinking TONS of
>>>current and causing the voltage throughout the car to drop
>>>excessively.
>>>
>>>Specifically: checking voltage at the injectors, I get only about
>>>8.5V while they're activated, and closer to 5.5V when cranking.
>>>Voltage *at the battery* drops from about 12V to just barely over 8V
>>>for a few seconds as soon as the key is switched to Ignition, then
>>>jumps back up to 12V, nicely coinciding with the brief time the main
>>>relay switches on the pump and injectors. Connecting jumper cables to
>>>my running car, thus providing 14V to the system, allowed the car to
>>>ALMOST start as system voltage dropped to about 9.5V with ignition
>>>on, and 8.5V while cranking - it tried to catch a few times, but just
>>>couldn't quite fire up.
>>>
>>>After a little more tracing, I ruled out the injectors and internal
>>>wiring problems... looking at the schematic, there are only three
>>>things on that circuit - the two injectors and the fuel pump - so I
>>>figured either there was a "near-short" somewhere in its wire (a dead
>>>short would have blown the fuse), or the pump was having issues... as
>>>it turned out, unplugging the pump lead got rid of the strange
>>>voltage drop.
>>>
>>>So I'm thinking the pump probably has bad bearings or sleeves, or is
>>>badly gummed up, or in some other way is being prevented from turning
>>>freely, and thus is drawing excessive current, enough to drop the
>>>system voltage too low to operate the ECM and/or injectors, but not
>>>enough to pop the related fuse.
>>>
>>>Lordco was closed by this time, so my buddy's gonna pick up a new
>>>fuel pump tomorrow... but he'll be installing it on his own, as I'll
>>>be down at the football game!
>>>
>>>Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!
>>>
>>
>>
>> It might be just a clogged fuel pickup.
>
> If that was the case, there'd be no pressure on the pump and it would
> spin freely; it wouldn't be drawing a ton of current.
>

No,a pump trying to pull on a clogged line draws more current.
It spins freer under normal loads.Simple hydraulics.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:


>
> Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!



Matt, hold off until you know for sure that this is the issue. Posting
as-it-happens is an invitation to severe -- and likely inaccurate --
speculation.

Your thesis is intriguing. I await the synthesis, empirically arrived at,
of course...

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:


>
> Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!



Matt, hold off until you know for sure that this is the issue. Posting
as-it-happens is an invitation to severe -- and likely inaccurate --
speculation.

Your thesis is intriguing. I await the synthesis, empirically arrived at,
of course...

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:


>
> Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!



Matt, hold off until you know for sure that this is the issue. Posting
as-it-happens is an invitation to severe -- and likely inaccurate --
speculation.

Your thesis is intriguing. I await the synthesis, empirically arrived at,
of course...

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

Matt Ion <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:PXcFg.419370$Mn5.171051@pd7tw3no:


>
> Hopefully that takes care of things... I'll let you know!



Matt, hold off until you know for sure that this is the issue. Posting
as-it-happens is an invitation to severe -- and likely inaccurate --
speculation.

Your thesis is intriguing. I await the synthesis, empirically arrived at,
of course...

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/