In article <16t8s1llplh3f3f1ji3pmp0955503jetrc@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> We always have the ability to walk away from the deal but that in no
> way justifies the actions of the seller.

In the case of simple pricing, it sure does.

Caveat emptor. If the salesman is doing something shady, then you walk
away--no harm, no foul.

You all seem to think that he shouldn't be doing everything he can to
maximize his income. If he can convince you that the car is worth more
money--and that's his job--then he's doing his job. It's up to you, the
consumer, to be aware of his job and not to think of him as your buddy
or pal. His job is to extract as much money from you as he can.

Your job is to spend as little money as you can.

You all just don't like it that you're in a position where you have to
work, to negotiate. You want it all cut and dried, like buying a shirt
at the store. Hey, it has a price tag on it, take it or leave it.
Wal-Mart doesn't negotiate. You're happy with that.

So why not go buy a Saturn?

 

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:02:52 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <16t8s1llplh3f3f1ji3pmp0955503jetrc@4ax.com>,
> Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> just because we exist in a free market society does not mean that
>> whatever you charge is fair and reasonable just because the market
>> will bear it or someone is willing to pay.
>
>Pray tell, why not?
>
>Sure, it's not reasonable to YOU because YOU don't want to pay that.
>But if they have 12 cars to sell and 15 people wanting those cars at $5K
>over invoice, what's your beef?
>
>Just because YOU don't think it's reasonable doesn't mean others don't
>think it's reasonable. If they're willing to pay, and they have the
>money, that's all that matters.
>
>What bothers you is that you're excluded from those deals simply because
>you can't pay the going rate.


buddy

You don't know crap!
---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
remove ** to email

 

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:05:50 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <16t8s1llplh3f3f1ji3pmp0955503jetrc@4ax.com>,
> Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> We always have the ability to walk away from the deal but that in no
>> way justifies the actions of the seller.
>
>In the case of simple pricing, it sure does.
>
>Caveat emptor. If the salesman is doing something shady, then you walk
>away--no harm, no foul.
>
>You all seem to think that he shouldn't be doing everything he can to
>maximize his income. If he can convince you that the car is worth more
>money--and that's his job--then he's doing his job. It's up to you, the
>consumer, to be aware of his job and not to think of him as your buddy
>or pal. His job is to extract as much money from you as he can.
>
>Your job is to spend as little money as you can.
>
>You all just don't like it that you're in a position where you have to
>work, to negotiate. You want it all cut and dried, like buying a shirt
>at the store. Hey, it has a price tag on it, take it or leave it.
>Wal-Mart doesn't negotiate. You're happy with that.
>
>So why not go buy a Saturn?


"we-All" don't agree with your analysis.

a person who tries to take advantage of the consumer buy purely just
tacking one extreme profit is a decent good business person?

You ever hear of ethics? You ever hear of reasonable profit?

The issue is that the average consumer only knows the value of the car
by the sticker price..... the dealer takes this and then tacks on $5K
or whatever.
---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
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In article <jcfbs1l76m5ts8139enea1sogk295sg17k@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> >> just because we exist in a free market society does not mean that
> >> whatever you charge is fair and reasonable just because the market
> >> will bear it or someone is willing to pay.
> >
> >Pray tell, why not?
> >
> >Sure, it's not reasonable to YOU because YOU don't want to pay that.
> >But if they have 12 cars to sell and 15 people wanting those cars at $5K
> >over invoice, what's your beef?
> >
> >Just because YOU don't think it's reasonable doesn't mean others don't
> >think it's reasonable. If they're willing to pay, and they have the
> >money, that's all that matters.
> >
> >What bothers you is that you're excluded from those deals simply because
> >you can't pay the going rate.
>
>
> buddy
>
> You don't know crap!

I know that you're one of those who (a) wants one now, but (b) doesn't
want to pay the price (or can't). Therefore, dealers who charge AND GET
more than what you WANT (or CAN) pay are, by your definition, scum.

Maybe if you got a better job. Or maybe if you got a job, period.

 

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:58:34 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <1136910122.097955.306920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
> volwrath@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Sorry for topposting... but I think it is a given that car dealers are
>> shysters period, so what is your problem with the comment?
>
>They're not shysters, period....some salesmen are, but many are not.
>
>The fact that it's up to YOU to determine whether he's a shyster or not
>is what bugs you, I think. You want not to have to work at it. You
>want it handed to you in a "fair" manner ("fair" being what YOU think is
>fair).


a "slime-ball" is a slime-ball no matter what spin you put on the
situation.


How about the repair person who came out to your house and marked up
the repair bill by $400... just because he could. Maybe he too, is a
good business person, using your logic.
---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
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On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:01:15 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <1136910122.097955.306920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
> volwrath@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The fact of the matter is that when a car dealer attempts to sell me a
>> car for 5k over invoice, and is calling it a deal, that is a little
>> shady.
>
>If he can get $6K over invoice for every car for the next month or two,
>then yes--giving it to you for $5K over invoice is a deal.
>
>And what's with your focus in invoice price? You have this number in
>your head as a holy grail, as if it means something. Guess what? It
>doesn't. It's a fake number that has nothing to do with what the dealer
>paid for the car. Anymore, it's a number designed to satisfy people
>like you in some fashion, people who think they have to know what the
>dealer paid for the car and go from there--people who think that somehow
>that's the only "fair" way to do things.
>
>So now, the actual dealer price is hidden so well you'll never know it
>or see it. The "invoice" price is what the magician shows you in one
>hand while he's busy hiding things with the other hand.
>
>Meanwhile, you walk into a department store and happily buy a shirt
>without knowing what the store paid for it. So who's ripping you off
>now?


smoke and mirrors

you negotiate on clothing? no

you negotiate on most consumer purchases? no

you comparing apples to apples? no

---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
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In article <tqfbs1pgqk1mlqqvbqc8lsmg7965hp8bhc@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> you negotiate on clothing? no
>
> you negotiate on most consumer purchases? no
>
> you comparing apples to apples? no

So you don't want to negotiate for your purchases.

Which leads me back to the question I asked, which you never answered:
why aren't you buying Saturn?

 

In article <bmfbs15v93hadfl2mpdanul8c2anidgc2m@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> >The fact that it's up to YOU to determine whether he's a shyster or not
> >is what bugs you, I think. You want not to have to work at it. You
> >want it handed to you in a "fair" manner ("fair" being what YOU think is
> >fair).
>
>
> a "slime-ball" is a slime-ball no matter what spin you put on the
> situation.

Is that your world? All black and white? EVERY car salesman is a
slimeball.

So let me ask you: when he moves to selling men's shirts in the
department store, is he still a slimeball?

 

In article <gffbs11u38qcg8scovqbgl81nbfs1ik98c@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> a person who tries to take advantage of the consumer buy purely just
> tacking one extreme profit is a decent good business person?

"by tacking on extreme profit"?

You don't get out much, do you?

The invoice number is pure fantasy. The sticker number is pure fantasy.
The car is worth what someone will pay for it, period. The dealer finds
that number as best he can. His job is not to leave money on the table.

That's his JOB.

If someone is willing to pay $26,000 for an Si, why shouldn't the dealer
get that?

Who *cares* what the sticker says? It's all fantasy, and has nothing to
do with the selling price.

You're just an idiot who doesn't like to negotiate, who thinks that
everything should be black-and-white on pricing.

How do you buy a house, anyway? I guess it doesn't matter, since you
don't have enough money to buy one or income to support it.

 

In article <gffbs11u38qcg8scovqbgl81nbfs1ik98c@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> The issue is that the average consumer only knows the value of the car
> by the sticker price..... the dealer takes this and then tacks on $5K
> or whatever.

But going the other way is OK with you, I suppose.

It's OK for GM to offer $15K in "discounts" and "rebates" on slow
selling, overpriced, leather-bound trucks, right?

You've just shown yourself. You'll be happy to BE the slimeball who
won't pay the sticker price but demands $15K UNDER--gee, after all,
that's just what that truck is worth, it was "overpriced" to begin with,
right?--but you don't like OTHERS to be the "slimeballs" who charge OVER
that fantasy sticker price if that's what the car is worth.

So why aren't you railing at everyone for not buying those GM trucks at
sticker price? After all, isn't that how the consumer knows what the
value of the car is? Why are those consumers leaving those cars on the
lot in droves, forcing GM to come up with these huge rebates? Isn't the
sticker price the value of the car?

Yer an idiot.

 

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 05:43:07 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <gffbs11u38qcg8scovqbgl81nbfs1ik98c@4ax.com>,
> Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> The issue is that the average consumer only knows the value of the car
>> by the sticker price..... the dealer takes this and then tacks on $5K
>> or whatever.
>
>But going the other way is OK with you, I suppose.
>
>It's OK for GM to offer $15K in "discounts" and "rebates" on slow
>selling, overpriced, leather-bound trucks, right?
>
>You've just shown yourself. You'll be happy to BE the slimeball who
>won't pay the sticker price but demands $15K UNDER--gee, after all,
>that's just what that truck is worth, it was "overpriced" to begin with,
>right?--but you don't like OTHERS to be the "slimeballs" who charge OVER
>that fantasy sticker price if that's what the car is worth.
>
>So why aren't you railing at everyone for not buying those GM trucks at
>sticker price? After all, isn't that how the consumer knows what the
>value of the car is? Why are those consumers leaving those cars on the
>lot in droves, forcing GM to come up with these huge rebates? Isn't the
>sticker price the value of the car?
>
>Yer an idiot.

my last comment to you is this.... Get a clue!
---
elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net
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In article <2onds11rs1qnpr54226q5a9hvlq4i39q0f@4ax.com>,
Elbert <elbert.clarke@**adelphia.net> wrote:

> >So why aren't you railing at everyone for not buying those GM trucks at
> >sticker price? After all, isn't that how the consumer knows what the
> >value of the car is? Why are those consumers leaving those cars on the
> >lot in droves, forcing GM to come up with these huge rebates? Isn't the
> >sticker price the value of the car?
> >
> >Yer an idiot.
>
> my last comment to you is this.... Get a clue!

Your own words reveal you for what you are.