2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
09-17-2005 | 01:51 PM
#17
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Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:AdOdnY7ksNsqobHeRVn-og@speakeasy.net...
> don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking your preference, but i don't
> understand the upshift bit. it /can't/ upshift if you're manually
> over-riding it. if you want it to shift "prematurely" for traction in
> snow or mug, it shouldn't matter once you're under way. and with the
> honda, you /do/ have the ability to pull away in "2", where first gear
> will not engage.
>
That's our confusion - my complaint is that they don't always upshift when
the shifter is moved to allow it. Unless the lower gear has been held longer
than the tranny would have held it, the tranny will wait until it thinks the
shift should be made. Again, in good driving conditions it is a minor
annoyance. In slippery conditions it is intolerable.
That truck I borrowed was the one I had when I was sent out in a snowstorm.
The freeway was moving as much as 40 mph in sheltered areas and as little as
5 mph in the worst. Since downshifting is the same as braking as far as
slippery roads are concerned, I wanted it to favor the highest practical
gear. Instead, the only way I could control what it did was to select a
lower gear than I wanted. More than once on upslopes I reached places where
the conditions were worse and I eased off on the gas to finesse my way
through. Instead the demon transmission took that as a sign to upshift, with
the little *nudge*. With a manual I would have been in that gear a long time
ago.
Mike
news:AdOdnY7ksNsqobHeRVn-og@speakeasy.net...
> don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking your preference, but i don't
> understand the upshift bit. it /can't/ upshift if you're manually
> over-riding it. if you want it to shift "prematurely" for traction in
> snow or mug, it shouldn't matter once you're under way. and with the
> honda, you /do/ have the ability to pull away in "2", where first gear
> will not engage.
>
That's our confusion - my complaint is that they don't always upshift when
the shifter is moved to allow it. Unless the lower gear has been held longer
than the tranny would have held it, the tranny will wait until it thinks the
shift should be made. Again, in good driving conditions it is a minor
annoyance. In slippery conditions it is intolerable.
That truck I borrowed was the one I had when I was sent out in a snowstorm.
The freeway was moving as much as 40 mph in sheltered areas and as little as
5 mph in the worst. Since downshifting is the same as braking as far as
slippery roads are concerned, I wanted it to favor the highest practical
gear. Instead, the only way I could control what it did was to select a
lower gear than I wanted. More than once on upslopes I reached places where
the conditions were worse and I eased off on the gas to finesse my way
through. Instead the demon transmission took that as a sign to upshift, with
the little *nudge*. With a manual I would have been in that gear a long time
ago.
Mike
09-17-2005 | 01:55 PM
#18
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Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-497EEA.12170017092005@nntp3.usenetserver.com...
> In article <CYWdnVhmEcQqr7HenZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@sedona.net>,
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>
>> To each their own.
>
> "each" is singular, therefore it's "to each his own".
>
Sorry - I were confused ;-)
Say... isn't that his/her own? Or (shades of the 70s) "thon's" own?
Mike
news:elmop-497EEA.12170017092005@nntp3.usenetserver.com...
> In article <CYWdnVhmEcQqr7HenZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@sedona.net>,
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>
>> To each their own.
>
> "each" is singular, therefore it's "to each his own".
>
Sorry - I were confused ;-)
Say... isn't that his/her own? Or (shades of the 70s) "thon's" own?
Mike
09-17-2005 | 09:23 PM
#19
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Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
Yea but how much shifting is done at highway seep? I saw this and I wonder
is the gearing is different. I could not find the gear ratios. I bet that
is the difference since they are both 5 speed trannys.
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns96D2DFE85F2DFtegger@207.14.113.17...
> "Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:RlhWe.106$Gg1.66@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink .net:
>
>> "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>> > A. Smith wrote:
>>> > > Honda's web site says the 2006 Civic gets EPA
>>> > > 38 mpg with the manual transmission and 40 mpg
>>> > > with the automatic.
>>> > >
>>> > > What's "wrong" here?
>>> >
>>> > nothing. the system's been programmed to shift for economy - after
>>> > all, the ecu /does/ know how much gas is being injected. pretty
>>> > simple.
>>>
>>> Right! I think you'll have a hard time getting lower mileage/gallon
>>> with a stick than an automatic on any of the new cars.
>>
>> One more voice: In fact, this trend has been going on for several
>> years. Many automatics have been trumping manual transmission cars for
>> fuel economy, back to the mid/late 1990s or so, IIRC. "Variable Valve
>> Timing and Lift Electronic Control" (VTEC) has been a big factor in
>> this, IIRC.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Automatics are far better than manuals all around these days. Computerized
> electronic controls trump human brains and muscles hands down.
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
>
is the gearing is different. I could not find the gear ratios. I bet that
is the difference since they are both 5 speed trannys.
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns96D2DFE85F2DFtegger@207.14.113.17...
> "Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:RlhWe.106$Gg1.66@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink .net:
>
>> "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>> > A. Smith wrote:
>>> > > Honda's web site says the 2006 Civic gets EPA
>>> > > 38 mpg with the manual transmission and 40 mpg
>>> > > with the automatic.
>>> > >
>>> > > What's "wrong" here?
>>> >
>>> > nothing. the system's been programmed to shift for economy - after
>>> > all, the ecu /does/ know how much gas is being injected. pretty
>>> > simple.
>>>
>>> Right! I think you'll have a hard time getting lower mileage/gallon
>>> with a stick than an automatic on any of the new cars.
>>
>> One more voice: In fact, this trend has been going on for several
>> years. Many automatics have been trumping manual transmission cars for
>> fuel economy, back to the mid/late 1990s or so, IIRC. "Variable Valve
>> Timing and Lift Electronic Control" (VTEC) has been a big factor in
>> this, IIRC.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Automatics are far better than manuals all around these days. Computerized
> electronic controls trump human brains and muscles hands down.
>
> --
> TeGGeR®
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
>
09-18-2005 | 12:33 PM
#20
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Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:55:39 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>>> To each their own.
>>
>> "each" is singular, therefore it's "to each his own".
>>
>Sorry - I were confused ;-)
>
>Say... isn't that his/her own? Or (shades of the 70s) "thon's" own?
Yeah, that's why some modern style manuals do now allow the plural in
such conditions.
J.
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>>> To each their own.
>>
>> "each" is singular, therefore it's "to each his own".
>>
>Sorry - I were confused ;-)
>
>Say... isn't that his/her own? Or (shades of the 70s) "thon's" own?
Yeah, that's why some modern style manuals do now allow the plural in
such conditions.
J.
09-18-2005 | 12:37 PM
#21
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Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:23:00 -0400, "A. Smith" <ecarecar@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>Honda's web site says the 2006 Civic gets EPA
>38 mpg with the manual transmission and 40 mpg
>with the automatic.
>
>What's "wrong" here?
Modern autos can shift smoothly and seriously fast. Especially on the
highway, this lets them shift into overdrive long before I'd do it
with a stick, since the auto can also shift back out so quickly and
smoothly. Better living through chemistry.
Even my funky Accord auto is very, very good at such things, it's only
when you want a downshift and try to get it through the gas pedal that
it sticks and stumbles.
J.
wrote:
>Honda's web site says the 2006 Civic gets EPA
>38 mpg with the manual transmission and 40 mpg
>with the automatic.
>
>What's "wrong" here?
Modern autos can shift smoothly and seriously fast. Especially on the
highway, this lets them shift into overdrive long before I'd do it
with a stick, since the auto can also shift back out so quickly and
smoothly. Better living through chemistry.
Even my funky Accord auto is very, very good at such things, it's only
when you want a downshift and try to get it through the gas pedal that
it sticks and stumbles.
J.
09-18-2005 | 07:07 PM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> > "Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
> >> "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote
> >>> jim beam wrote:
> >>> > A. Smith wrote:
> >>> > > Honda's web site says the 2006 Civic gets EPA
> >>> > > 38 mpg with the manual transmission and 40 mpg
> >>> > > with the automatic.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > What's "wrong" here?
> >>> >
> >>> > nothing. the system's been programmed to shift for economy - after
> >>> > all, the ecu /does/ know how much gas is being injected. pretty
> >>> > simple.
> >>>
> >>> Right! I think you'll have a hard time getting lower mileage/gallon
> >>> with a stick than an automatic on any of the new cars.
> >>
> >> One more voice: In fact, this trend has been going on for several
> >> years. Many automatics have been trumping manual transmission cars for
> >> fuel economy, back to the mid/late 1990s or so, IIRC. "Variable Valve
> >> Timing and Lift Electronic Control" (VTEC) has been a big factor in
> >> this, IIRC.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Automatics are far better than manuals all around these days.
Computerized
> > electronic controls trump human brains and muscles hands down.
2005 Civic manual transmission, for one, still beats the automatic version
in city driving:
Manual VTEC 32/37
Auto VTEC 31/38
The 2005Toyota Echo's manual still trumps the auto version in both city and
highway driving:
Manual 35/42
Auto 33/39
Source: www.fueleconomy.gov
There are of course explanations for this. The point is, it's not yet time
to generalize and say all automatic trannies trump all manual trannies, as
far as fuel mileage is concerned. They do not.
> > "Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
> >> "Remco" <whybcuz@yahoo.com> wrote
> >>> jim beam wrote:
> >>> > A. Smith wrote:
> >>> > > Honda's web site says the 2006 Civic gets EPA
> >>> > > 38 mpg with the manual transmission and 40 mpg
> >>> > > with the automatic.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > What's "wrong" here?
> >>> >
> >>> > nothing. the system's been programmed to shift for economy - after
> >>> > all, the ecu /does/ know how much gas is being injected. pretty
> >>> > simple.
> >>>
> >>> Right! I think you'll have a hard time getting lower mileage/gallon
> >>> with a stick than an automatic on any of the new cars.
> >>
> >> One more voice: In fact, this trend has been going on for several
> >> years. Many automatics have been trumping manual transmission cars for
> >> fuel economy, back to the mid/late 1990s or so, IIRC. "Variable Valve
> >> Timing and Lift Electronic Control" (VTEC) has been a big factor in
> >> this, IIRC.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Automatics are far better than manuals all around these days.
Computerized
> > electronic controls trump human brains and muscles hands down.
2005 Civic manual transmission, for one, still beats the automatic version
in city driving:
Manual VTEC 32/37
Auto VTEC 31/38
The 2005Toyota Echo's manual still trumps the auto version in both city and
highway driving:
Manual 35/42
Auto 33/39
Source: www.fueleconomy.gov
There are of course explanations for this. The point is, it's not yet time
to generalize and say all automatic trannies trump all manual trannies, as
far as fuel mileage is concerned. They do not.
09-18-2005 | 09:55 PM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
"Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:hrmXe.82$0m6.78@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink. net:
>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>> > Automatics are far better than manuals all around these days.
> Computerized
>> > electronic controls trump human brains and muscles hands down.
>
> 2005 Civic manual transmission, for one, still beats the automatic
> version in city driving:
> Manual VTEC 32/37
> Auto VTEC 31/38
>
> The 2005Toyota Echo's manual still trumps the auto version in both
> city and highway driving:
> Manual 35/42
> Auto 33/39
>
> Source: www.fueleconomy.gov
>
> There are of course explanations for this. The point is, it's not yet
> time to generalize and say all automatic trannies trump all manual
> trannies, as far as fuel mileage is concerned. They do not.
>
>
>
Well, for the most part they do, even if it's not universal (yet).
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
news:hrmXe.82$0m6.78@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink. net:
>> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>> > Automatics are far better than manuals all around these days.
> Computerized
>> > electronic controls trump human brains and muscles hands down.
>
> 2005 Civic manual transmission, for one, still beats the automatic
> version in city driving:
> Manual VTEC 32/37
> Auto VTEC 31/38
>
> The 2005Toyota Echo's manual still trumps the auto version in both
> city and highway driving:
> Manual 35/42
> Auto 33/39
>
> Source: www.fueleconomy.gov
>
> There are of course explanations for this. The point is, it's not yet
> time to generalize and say all automatic trannies trump all manual
> trannies, as far as fuel mileage is concerned. They do not.
>
>
>
Well, for the most part they do, even if it's not universal (yet).
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
09-18-2005 | 09:57 PM
#24
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Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
"Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in
news:K1SWe.171790$wr.34624@clgrps12:
>
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D3DDEF9EB23tegger@207.14.113.17...
>>
>> I like my manual in any case. Just today I spent a half-hour blipping
>> forwards a few feet at a time on the freeway to get past an accident.
>> Better that than lose control the rest of the time with an automatic.
>
> This last sentence is quite the bizarre statement. Are you saying that
> you can't maintain care and control of a vehicle with an automatic
> transmission? If you're not saying that, what thought exactly are you
> trying to convey? {;^)
I mean automatics shift gears all by themselves. I hate that. That's all I
meant.
I like having complete control over the shifting, even if it means having
to wrestle with a clutch in heavy traffic.
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
news:K1SWe.171790$wr.34624@clgrps12:
>
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D3DDEF9EB23tegger@207.14.113.17...
>>
>> I like my manual in any case. Just today I spent a half-hour blipping
>> forwards a few feet at a time on the freeway to get past an accident.
>> Better that than lose control the rest of the time with an automatic.
>
> This last sentence is quite the bizarre statement. Are you saying that
> you can't maintain care and control of a vehicle with an automatic
> transmission? If you're not saying that, what thought exactly are you
> trying to convey? {;^)
I mean automatics shift gears all by themselves. I hate that. That's all I
meant.
I like having complete control over the shifting, even if it means having
to wrestle with a clutch in heavy traffic.
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
09-18-2005 | 09:59 PM
#25
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Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
497EEA.12170017092005@nntp3.usenetserver.com:
> In article <CYWdnVhmEcQqr7HenZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@sedona.net>,
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>
>> To each their own.
>
> "each" is singular, therefore it's "to each his own".
>
>
That's the modern perversion of grammar caused by political correctness.
It's now /evil/ to say "him". Sexist and exclusionary, don't you know.
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
497EEA.12170017092005@nntp3.usenetserver.com:
> In article <CYWdnVhmEcQqr7HenZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@sedona.net>,
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>
>> To each their own.
>
> "each" is singular, therefore it's "to each his own".
>
>
That's the modern perversion of grammar caused by political correctness.
It's now /evil/ to say "him". Sexist and exclusionary, don't you know.
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
09-18-2005 | 10:20 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
In article <Xns96D5DFD3CBE26tegger@207.14.113.17>,
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
> > "each" is singular, therefore it's "to each his own".
> >
> >
>
>
> That's the modern perversion of grammar caused by political correctness.
> It's now /evil/ to say "him". Sexist and exclusionary, don't you know.
yes. Interesting that they didn't demand we switch to "her".
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
> > "each" is singular, therefore it's "to each his own".
> >
> >
>
>
> That's the modern perversion of grammar caused by political correctness.
> It's now /evil/ to say "him". Sexist and exclusionary, don't you know.
yes. Interesting that they didn't demand we switch to "her".
09-18-2005 | 10:27 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
news:elmop-8B480F.22204618092005@nntp3.usenetserver.com:
> In article <Xns96D5DFD3CBE26tegger@207.14.113.17>,
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>
>> > "each" is singular, therefore it's "to each his own".
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> That's the modern perversion of grammar caused by political
>> correctness. It's now /evil/ to say "him". Sexist and exclusionary,
>> don't you know.
>
> yes. Interesting that they didn't demand we switch to "her".
>
>
I've seen authors use "she/her" where traditionally "he/him" would have
been the generic third-party singular term. It looks odd and is against
custom, but I guess that's better than using "they/them/their" in the
singular.
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
news:elmop-8B480F.22204618092005@nntp3.usenetserver.com:
> In article <Xns96D5DFD3CBE26tegger@207.14.113.17>,
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>
>> > "each" is singular, therefore it's "to each his own".
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> That's the modern perversion of grammar caused by political
>> correctness. It's now /evil/ to say "him". Sexist and exclusionary,
>> don't you know.
>
> yes. Interesting that they didn't demand we switch to "her".
>
>
I've seen authors use "she/her" where traditionally "he/him" would have
been the generic third-party singular term. It looks odd and is against
custom, but I guess that's better than using "they/them/their" in the
singular.
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
09-19-2005 | 09:27 AM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
JXStern wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:23:00 -0400, "A. Smith" <ecarecar@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Honda's web site says the 2006 Civic gets EPA
>>38 mpg with the manual transmission and 40 mpg
>>with the automatic.
>>
>>What's "wrong" here?
>
>
> Modern autos can shift smoothly and seriously fast. Especially on the
> highway, this lets them shift into overdrive long before I'd do it
> with a stick, since the auto can also shift back out so quickly and
> smoothly. Better living through chemistry.
>
> Even my funky Accord auto is very, very good at such things, it's only
> when you want a downshift and try to get it through the gas pedal that
> it sticks and stumbles.
if that's happening, there's something wrong.
>
> J.
>
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:23:00 -0400, "A. Smith" <ecarecar@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Honda's web site says the 2006 Civic gets EPA
>>38 mpg with the manual transmission and 40 mpg
>>with the automatic.
>>
>>What's "wrong" here?
>
>
> Modern autos can shift smoothly and seriously fast. Especially on the
> highway, this lets them shift into overdrive long before I'd do it
> with a stick, since the auto can also shift back out so quickly and
> smoothly. Better living through chemistry.
>
> Even my funky Accord auto is very, very good at such things, it's only
> when you want a downshift and try to get it through the gas pedal that
> it sticks and stumbles.
if that's happening, there's something wrong.
>
> J.
>
09-19-2005 | 09:41 AM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
"TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns96D5DF691A09Btegger@207.14.113.17...
>
> I mean automatics shift gears all by themselves. I hate that. That's all I
> meant.
More like not having 'total control' than losing control.
> I like having complete control over the shifting, even if it means having
> to wrestle with a clutch in heavy traffic.
I used to enjoy driving manual transmission equipped cars too. The key
phrase is 'used to', as I grow older the knees don't work as well as they
once did and an automatic transmission is similar to taking Aspirin (it
relieves the pain).
Brian
09-19-2005 | 01:17 PM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 2006 Civic 38 mpg manual 40 mpg automatic?
"Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in
news:XdzXe.262471$tt5.208035@edtnps90:
>
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D5DF691A09Btegger@207.14.113.17...
>>
>> I mean automatics shift gears all by themselves. I hate that. That's
>> all I meant.
>
> More like not having 'total control' than losing control.
>
>> I like having complete control over the shifting, even if it means
>> having to wrestle with a clutch in heavy traffic.
>
> I used to enjoy driving manual transmission equipped cars too. The key
> phrase is 'used to', as I grow older the knees don't work as well as
> they once did and an automatic transmission is similar to taking
> Aspirin (it relieves the pain).
I'm only 43, so my Aspirin days are a few years ahead.
--
TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
news:XdzXe.262471$tt5.208035@edtnps90:
>
> "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> news:Xns96D5DF691A09Btegger@207.14.113.17...
>>
>> I mean automatics shift gears all by themselves. I hate that. That's
>> all I meant.
>
> More like not having 'total control' than losing control.
>
>> I like having complete control over the shifting, even if it means
>> having to wrestle with a clutch in heavy traffic.
>
> I used to enjoy driving manual transmission equipped cars too. The key
> phrase is 'used to', as I grow older the knees don't work as well as
> they once did and an automatic transmission is similar to taking
> Aspirin (it relieves the pain).
I'm only 43, so my Aspirin days are a few years ahead.
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TeGGeR®
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/