On Tue, 01 May 2007 20:43:23 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 May 2007 17:21:57 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:24:24 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> snip
>>>
>>>
>>>>> the fans don't work on the highway - airflow from car movement
>>>>> exceeds airflow from fan rotation by a country mile. if you were
>>>>> boiling, you had airflow restriction, thermostat problems or a gasket
>>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> LOL! You come to Mass on a hot July day, and I'll take you for a ride.
>>>> At 70MPH on the highway, when the fan kicks in it sounds like a B-17
>>>> trying to pass you! Oh, yeah, the fan kicks in! (It's attached to the
>>>> crankshaft...not electric, and uses a heat-sensitive oil that thickens
>>>> when hot and causes the fan to be driven, rather than just
>>>> 'feathering'.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> This is new to me... A fan attached to the crankshaft??? What is this
>>> vehicle?
>>
>> I may be showing my age...I'm not sure if it's actually on the
>> crankshaft...(I'm sure it's not...)
>>
>>> That said, if you're going 70 mph and it (thermostatic clutch) causes
>>> the fan to come on, most likely you either have too little radiator or
>>> its plugged.
>>>
>>> JT
>>
>> Everything seems OK, but the previous owner sunk $1100 into the cooling
>> system...
>>
> doesn't mean they knew what they were doing. i knew a guy spend thousands
> on "cooling problems" for a rear engine, front radiator car he was trying
> to race. constant overheating. he, and a number of other "race
> mechanics" failed to see the significance of a 3/4" home-built water
> manifold bolted onto where the thermostat was supposed to be. whoda thunk
> to consider effect of such a small pipe on coolant flow!!!
>
> bottom line, these vehicles ship from factory having been tested at full
> throttle, fully loaded, in summer, in death valley. if yours is
> overheating just tooling along the highway without aftermarket assistance,
> there's something wrong. and it's not the fan.


Check my response to Mike, above.

I was also running without the shroud underneath the engine, and while
replacing it helped somewhat, it wasn't until I replaced the clutch that
the problem disappeared.

 

On Tue, 01 May 2007 20:43:23 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 May 2007 17:21:57 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:24:24 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> snip
>>>
>>>
>>>>> the fans don't work on the highway - airflow from car movement
>>>>> exceeds airflow from fan rotation by a country mile. if you were
>>>>> boiling, you had airflow restriction, thermostat problems or a gasket
>>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> LOL! You come to Mass on a hot July day, and I'll take you for a ride.
>>>> At 70MPH on the highway, when the fan kicks in it sounds like a B-17
>>>> trying to pass you! Oh, yeah, the fan kicks in! (It's attached to the
>>>> crankshaft...not electric, and uses a heat-sensitive oil that thickens
>>>> when hot and causes the fan to be driven, rather than just
>>>> 'feathering'.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> This is new to me... A fan attached to the crankshaft??? What is this
>>> vehicle?
>>
>> I may be showing my age...I'm not sure if it's actually on the
>> crankshaft...(I'm sure it's not...)
>>
>>> That said, if you're going 70 mph and it (thermostatic clutch) causes
>>> the fan to come on, most likely you either have too little radiator or
>>> its plugged.
>>>
>>> JT
>>
>> Everything seems OK, but the previous owner sunk $1100 into the cooling
>> system...
>>
> doesn't mean they knew what they were doing. i knew a guy spend thousands
> on "cooling problems" for a rear engine, front radiator car he was trying
> to race. constant overheating. he, and a number of other "race
> mechanics" failed to see the significance of a 3/4" home-built water
> manifold bolted onto where the thermostat was supposed to be. whoda thunk
> to consider effect of such a small pipe on coolant flow!!!
>
> bottom line, these vehicles ship from factory having been tested at full
> throttle, fully loaded, in summer, in death valley. if yours is
> overheating just tooling along the highway without aftermarket assistance,
> there's something wrong. and it's not the fan.


Check my response to Mike, above.

I was also running without the shroud underneath the engine, and while
replacing it helped somewhat, it wasn't until I replaced the clutch that
the problem disappeared.

 

On Tue, 01 May 2007 23:11:47 -0400, High Tech Misfit wrote:

> Hachiroku  wrote:
>
>> '88 Supra...the Poster Child for Blown Head Gaskets...
>
> I know that version of Supra had head gasket issues. But surely the real
> poster child for blown head gaskets would be a Dodge Neon, wouldn't it?
> :-)


When they designed the car, asbestos HGs were still in use. When building
started, asbestos HGs were gone. I guess they went to a semi-metallic HG,
which called for higher torque on the head bolts. Toyota *didn't* call for
higher torque, and suffered a lot of BHGs.

Luckily, whoever had the car originally either had the head retorqued, or
replaced the gasket and had it torqued to the new spec.

 

On Tue, 01 May 2007 23:11:47 -0400, High Tech Misfit wrote:

> Hachiroku  wrote:
>
>> '88 Supra...the Poster Child for Blown Head Gaskets...
>
> I know that version of Supra had head gasket issues. But surely the real
> poster child for blown head gaskets would be a Dodge Neon, wouldn't it?
> :-)


When they designed the car, asbestos HGs were still in use. When building
started, asbestos HGs were gone. I guess they went to a semi-metallic HG,
which called for higher torque on the head bolts. Toyota *didn't* call for
higher torque, and suffered a lot of BHGs.

Luckily, whoever had the car originally either had the head retorqued, or
replaced the gasket and had it torqued to the new spec.

 

On Wed, 02 May 2007 03:50:37 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

>
>
> High Tech Misfit wrote:
>> Hachiroku  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>'88 Supra...the Poster Child for Blown Head Gaskets...
>>
>>
>> I know that version of Supra had head gasket issues. But surely the
>> real poster child for blown head gaskets would be a Dodge Neon, wouldn't
>> it? :-)
>
>
> Or Taurus' with the 3.8 engine. I can tell a long tale of woe regarding
> one of those POS...
>
> JT

I used to work for a guy that sold used Fords. We sold a lot of Taurus',
but RARELY one with a 3.8. He *knew* better!

I was working at a CarQuest, and we had a small market across from us. A
guy stopped with a Continental to get a paper and a cup of coffee. It was
Feb, so he left the motor running.

Normal...a little steam..then a puff...and another puff...and a few more
puffs...by the time the guy came out of the store there was a steady
stream of steam flowing from the tailpipe. He stopped someone passing,
pointed to the tailpipe, and the other guy just shrugged his shoulders and
walked on. Before I could get to the door, the guy drove off.

Sure hope he went RIGHT to the Ford dealer down the street!

 

On Wed, 02 May 2007 03:50:37 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

>
>
> High Tech Misfit wrote:
>> Hachiroku  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>'88 Supra...the Poster Child for Blown Head Gaskets...
>>
>>
>> I know that version of Supra had head gasket issues. But surely the
>> real poster child for blown head gaskets would be a Dodge Neon, wouldn't
>> it? :-)
>
>
> Or Taurus' with the 3.8 engine. I can tell a long tale of woe regarding
> one of those POS...
>
> JT

I used to work for a guy that sold used Fords. We sold a lot of Taurus',
but RARELY one with a 3.8. He *knew* better!

I was working at a CarQuest, and we had a small market across from us. A
guy stopped with a Continental to get a paper and a cup of coffee. It was
Feb, so he left the motor running.

Normal...a little steam..then a puff...and another puff...and a few more
puffs...by the time the guy came out of the store there was a steady
stream of steam flowing from the tailpipe. He stopped someone passing,
pointed to the tailpipe, and the other guy just shrugged his shoulders and
walked on. Before I could get to the door, the guy drove off.

Sure hope he went RIGHT to the Ford dealer down the street!

 

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 01 May 2007 17:21:57 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:24:24 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> snip
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> the fans don't work on the highway - airflow from car movement
>>>>>> exceeds
>>>>>> airflow from fan rotation by a country mile. if you were boiling,
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> had airflow restriction, thermostat problems or a gasket problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL! You come to Mass on a hot July day, and I'll take you for a ride.
>>>>> At 70MPH on the highway, when the fan kicks in it sounds like a B-17
>>>>> trying to pass you! Oh, yeah, the fan kicks in! (It's attached to the
>>>>> crankshaft...not electric, and uses a heat-sensitive oil that thickens
>>>>> when hot and causes the fan to be driven, rather than just
>>>>> 'feathering'.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> This is new to me... A fan attached to the crankshaft??? What is this
>>>> vehicle?
>>>
>>>
>>> I may be showing my age...I'm not sure if it's actually on the
>>> crankshaft...(I'm sure it's not...)
>>>
>>>> That said, if you're going 70 mph and it (thermostatic clutch) causes
>>>> the fan to come on, most likely you either have too little radiator or
>>>> its plugged.
>>>>
>>>> JT
>>>
>>>
>>> Everything seems OK, but the previous owner sunk $1100 into the cooling
>>> system...
>>>
>> doesn't mean they knew what they were doing. i knew a guy spend
>> thousands on "cooling problems" for a rear engine, front radiator car
>> he was trying to race. constant overheating. he, and a number of
>> other "race mechanics" failed to see the significance of a 3/4"
>> home-built water manifold bolted onto where the thermostat was
>> supposed to be. whoda thunk to consider effect of such a small pipe on
>> coolant flow!!!
>>
>> bottom line, these vehicles ship from factory having been tested at
>> full throttle, fully loaded, in summer, in death valley. if yours is
>> overheating just tooling along the highway without aftermarket
>> assistance, there's something wrong. and it's not the fan.
>
>
> About thirty years ago while returning home from a car show with my 1956
> Studebaker Hawk, the temperature gauge began to rise. I pulled over and
> saw that the fan belt had "disappeared." At any rate, the rest of the
> drive was on a freeway and I surmised that I could get home since the
> incoming air would drive the water pump as well as cool the radiator so
> long as I kept up a reasonable speed. The gauge never went above 180°.
>
> Sometimes, "old" can be better...
>
> JT
>
>
that's not "old", it's simply designing the heat dumper to match the
heat generator. with an electric radiator fan, no healthy car will use
anything other than airflow cooling on the freeway.

 

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 01 May 2007 17:21:57 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:24:24 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> snip
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> the fans don't work on the highway - airflow from car movement
>>>>>> exceeds
>>>>>> airflow from fan rotation by a country mile. if you were boiling,
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> had airflow restriction, thermostat problems or a gasket problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL! You come to Mass on a hot July day, and I'll take you for a ride.
>>>>> At 70MPH on the highway, when the fan kicks in it sounds like a B-17
>>>>> trying to pass you! Oh, yeah, the fan kicks in! (It's attached to the
>>>>> crankshaft...not electric, and uses a heat-sensitive oil that thickens
>>>>> when hot and causes the fan to be driven, rather than just
>>>>> 'feathering'.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> This is new to me... A fan attached to the crankshaft??? What is this
>>>> vehicle?
>>>
>>>
>>> I may be showing my age...I'm not sure if it's actually on the
>>> crankshaft...(I'm sure it's not...)
>>>
>>>> That said, if you're going 70 mph and it (thermostatic clutch) causes
>>>> the fan to come on, most likely you either have too little radiator or
>>>> its plugged.
>>>>
>>>> JT
>>>
>>>
>>> Everything seems OK, but the previous owner sunk $1100 into the cooling
>>> system...
>>>
>> doesn't mean they knew what they were doing. i knew a guy spend
>> thousands on "cooling problems" for a rear engine, front radiator car
>> he was trying to race. constant overheating. he, and a number of
>> other "race mechanics" failed to see the significance of a 3/4"
>> home-built water manifold bolted onto where the thermostat was
>> supposed to be. whoda thunk to consider effect of such a small pipe on
>> coolant flow!!!
>>
>> bottom line, these vehicles ship from factory having been tested at
>> full throttle, fully loaded, in summer, in death valley. if yours is
>> overheating just tooling along the highway without aftermarket
>> assistance, there's something wrong. and it's not the fan.
>
>
> About thirty years ago while returning home from a car show with my 1956
> Studebaker Hawk, the temperature gauge began to rise. I pulled over and
> saw that the fan belt had "disappeared." At any rate, the rest of the
> drive was on a freeway and I surmised that I could get home since the
> incoming air would drive the water pump as well as cool the radiator so
> long as I kept up a reasonable speed. The gauge never went above 180°.
>
> Sometimes, "old" can be better...
>
> JT
>
>
that's not "old", it's simply designing the heat dumper to match the
heat generator. with an electric radiator fan, no healthy car will use
anything other than airflow cooling on the freeway.

 

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Tue, 01 May 2007 20:43:23 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>>> On Tue, 01 May 2007 17:21:57 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:24:24 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> snip
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> the fans don't work on the highway - airflow from car movement
>>>>>> exceeds airflow from fan rotation by a country mile. if you were
>>>>>> boiling, you had airflow restriction, thermostat problems or a gasket
>>>>>> problem.
>>>>> LOL! You come to Mass on a hot July day, and I'll take you for a ride.
>>>>> At 70MPH on the highway, when the fan kicks in it sounds like a B-17
>>>>> trying to pass you! Oh, yeah, the fan kicks in! (It's attached to the
>>>>> crankshaft...not electric, and uses a heat-sensitive oil that thickens
>>>>> when hot and causes the fan to be driven, rather than just
>>>>> 'feathering'.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> This is new to me... A fan attached to the crankshaft??? What is this
>>>> vehicle?
>>> I may be showing my age...I'm not sure if it's actually on the
>>> crankshaft...(I'm sure it's not...)
>>>
>>>> That said, if you're going 70 mph and it (thermostatic clutch) causes
>>>> the fan to come on, most likely you either have too little radiator or
>>>> its plugged.
>>>>
>>>> JT
>>> Everything seems OK, but the previous owner sunk $1100 into the cooling
>>> system...
>>>
>> doesn't mean they knew what they were doing. i knew a guy spend thousands
>> on "cooling problems" for a rear engine, front radiator car he was trying
>> to race. constant overheating. he, and a number of other "race
>> mechanics" failed to see the significance of a 3/4" home-built water
>> manifold bolted onto where the thermostat was supposed to be. whoda thunk
>> to consider effect of such a small pipe on coolant flow!!!
>>
>> bottom line, these vehicles ship from factory having been tested at full
>> throttle, fully loaded, in summer, in death valley. if yours is
>> overheating just tooling along the highway without aftermarket assistance,
>> there's something wrong. and it's not the fan.
>
>
> Check my response to Mike, above.
>
> I was also running without the shroud underneath the engine, and while
> replacing it helped somewhat, it wasn't until I replaced the clutch that
> the problem disappeared.
>
around town, sure. but not on the freeway. lack of shroud, insect
debris blockage, kinked coolant pipe, slipping belt on coolant pump, out
of spec thermostat - these all have much more effect at freeway speed.

 

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Tue, 01 May 2007 20:43:23 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>>> On Tue, 01 May 2007 17:21:57 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:24:24 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> snip
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> the fans don't work on the highway - airflow from car movement
>>>>>> exceeds airflow from fan rotation by a country mile. if you were
>>>>>> boiling, you had airflow restriction, thermostat problems or a gasket
>>>>>> problem.
>>>>> LOL! You come to Mass on a hot July day, and I'll take you for a ride.
>>>>> At 70MPH on the highway, when the fan kicks in it sounds like a B-17
>>>>> trying to pass you! Oh, yeah, the fan kicks in! (It's attached to the
>>>>> crankshaft...not electric, and uses a heat-sensitive oil that thickens
>>>>> when hot and causes the fan to be driven, rather than just
>>>>> 'feathering'.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> This is new to me... A fan attached to the crankshaft??? What is this
>>>> vehicle?
>>> I may be showing my age...I'm not sure if it's actually on the
>>> crankshaft...(I'm sure it's not...)
>>>
>>>> That said, if you're going 70 mph and it (thermostatic clutch) causes
>>>> the fan to come on, most likely you either have too little radiator or
>>>> its plugged.
>>>>
>>>> JT
>>> Everything seems OK, but the previous owner sunk $1100 into the cooling
>>> system...
>>>
>> doesn't mean they knew what they were doing. i knew a guy spend thousands
>> on "cooling problems" for a rear engine, front radiator car he was trying
>> to race. constant overheating. he, and a number of other "race
>> mechanics" failed to see the significance of a 3/4" home-built water
>> manifold bolted onto where the thermostat was supposed to be. whoda thunk
>> to consider effect of such a small pipe on coolant flow!!!
>>
>> bottom line, these vehicles ship from factory having been tested at full
>> throttle, fully loaded, in summer, in death valley. if yours is
>> overheating just tooling along the highway without aftermarket assistance,
>> there's something wrong. and it's not the fan.
>
>
> Check my response to Mike, above.
>
> I was also running without the shroud underneath the engine, and while
> replacing it helped somewhat, it wasn't until I replaced the clutch that
> the problem disappeared.
>
around town, sure. but not on the freeway. lack of shroud, insect
debris blockage, kinked coolant pipe, slipping belt on coolant pump, out
of spec thermostat - these all have much more effect at freeway speed.

 

jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
news:xf2dnaFbbNr906TbnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:

> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>
>>
>> jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 01 May 2007 17:21:57 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:24:24 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> snip
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> the fans don't work on the highway - airflow from car movement
>>>>>>> exceeds
>>>>>>> airflow from fan rotation by a country mile. if you were
>>>>>>> boiling, you
>>>>>>> had airflow restriction, thermostat problems or a gasket
>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL! You come to Mass on a hot July day, and I'll take you for a
>>>>>> ride. At 70MPH on the highway, when the fan kicks in it sounds
>>>>>> like a B-17 trying to pass you! Oh, yeah, the fan kicks in! (It's
>>>>>> attached to the crankshaft...not electric, and uses a
>>>>>> heat-sensitive oil that thickens when hot and causes the fan to
>>>>>> be driven, rather than just 'feathering'.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> This is new to me... A fan attached to the crankshaft??? What is
>>>>> this vehicle?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I may be showing my age...I'm not sure if it's actually on the
>>>> crankshaft...(I'm sure it's not...)
>>>>
>>>>> That said, if you're going 70 mph and it (thermostatic clutch)
>>>>> causes the fan to come on, most likely you either have too little
>>>>> radiator or its plugged.
>>>>>
>>>>> JT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Everything seems OK, but the previous owner sunk $1100 into the
>>>> cooling system...
>>>>
>>> doesn't mean they knew what they were doing. i knew a guy spend
>>> thousands on "cooling problems" for a rear engine, front radiator
>>> car he was trying to race. constant overheating. he, and a number
>>> of other "race mechanics" failed to see the significance of a 3/4"
>>> home-built water manifold bolted onto where the thermostat was
>>> supposed to be. whoda thunk to consider effect of such a small pipe
>>> on coolant flow!!!
>>>
>>> bottom line, these vehicles ship from factory having been tested at
>>> full throttle, fully loaded, in summer, in death valley. if yours
>>> is overheating just tooling along the highway without aftermarket
>>> assistance, there's something wrong. and it's not the fan.
>>
>>
>> About thirty years ago while returning home from a car show with my
>> 1956 Studebaker Hawk, the temperature gauge began to rise. I pulled
>> over and
>> saw that the fan belt had "disappeared." At any rate, the rest of
>> the
>> drive was on a freeway and I surmised that I could get home since the
>> incoming air would drive the water pump as well as cool the radiator
>> so long as I kept up a reasonable speed. The gauge never went above
>> 180°.
>>
>> Sometimes, "old" can be better...
>>
>> JT
>>
>>
> that's not "old", it's simply designing the heat dumper to match the
> heat generator. with an electric radiator fan, no healthy car will
> use anything other than airflow cooling on the freeway.
>

Autos use electric fans purposely so they don't have to draw engine power
to turn the radiator fan when it's not needed;when the vehicle is at speed
and there's plenty of natural airflow.

The old belt driven fans changed to plastic blades because they could
flatten out at higher speeds and draw less power from the motor.
Electric fans were just the next step after that for economy.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
news:xf2dnaFbbNr906TbnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:

> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>
>>
>> jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 01 May 2007 17:21:57 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:24:24 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> snip
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> the fans don't work on the highway - airflow from car movement
>>>>>>> exceeds
>>>>>>> airflow from fan rotation by a country mile. if you were
>>>>>>> boiling, you
>>>>>>> had airflow restriction, thermostat problems or a gasket
>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL! You come to Mass on a hot July day, and I'll take you for a
>>>>>> ride. At 70MPH on the highway, when the fan kicks in it sounds
>>>>>> like a B-17 trying to pass you! Oh, yeah, the fan kicks in! (It's
>>>>>> attached to the crankshaft...not electric, and uses a
>>>>>> heat-sensitive oil that thickens when hot and causes the fan to
>>>>>> be driven, rather than just 'feathering'.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> This is new to me... A fan attached to the crankshaft??? What is
>>>>> this vehicle?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I may be showing my age...I'm not sure if it's actually on the
>>>> crankshaft...(I'm sure it's not...)
>>>>
>>>>> That said, if you're going 70 mph and it (thermostatic clutch)
>>>>> causes the fan to come on, most likely you either have too little
>>>>> radiator or its plugged.
>>>>>
>>>>> JT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Everything seems OK, but the previous owner sunk $1100 into the
>>>> cooling system...
>>>>
>>> doesn't mean they knew what they were doing. i knew a guy spend
>>> thousands on "cooling problems" for a rear engine, front radiator
>>> car he was trying to race. constant overheating. he, and a number
>>> of other "race mechanics" failed to see the significance of a 3/4"
>>> home-built water manifold bolted onto where the thermostat was
>>> supposed to be. whoda thunk to consider effect of such a small pipe
>>> on coolant flow!!!
>>>
>>> bottom line, these vehicles ship from factory having been tested at
>>> full throttle, fully loaded, in summer, in death valley. if yours
>>> is overheating just tooling along the highway without aftermarket
>>> assistance, there's something wrong. and it's not the fan.
>>
>>
>> About thirty years ago while returning home from a car show with my
>> 1956 Studebaker Hawk, the temperature gauge began to rise. I pulled
>> over and
>> saw that the fan belt had "disappeared." At any rate, the rest of
>> the
>> drive was on a freeway and I surmised that I could get home since the
>> incoming air would drive the water pump as well as cool the radiator
>> so long as I kept up a reasonable speed. The gauge never went above
>> 180°.
>>
>> Sometimes, "old" can be better...
>>
>> JT
>>
>>
> that's not "old", it's simply designing the heat dumper to match the
> heat generator. with an electric radiator fan, no healthy car will
> use anything other than airflow cooling on the freeway.
>

Autos use electric fans purposely so they don't have to draw engine power
to turn the radiator fan when it's not needed;when the vehicle is at speed
and there's plenty of natural airflow.

The old belt driven fans changed to plastic blades because they could
flatten out at higher speeds and draw less power from the motor.
Electric fans were just the next step after that for economy.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
> news:xf2dnaFbbNr906TbnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>
>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 01 May 2007 17:21:57 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:24:24 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> snip
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the fans don't work on the highway - airflow from car movement
>>>>>>>> exceeds
>>>>>>>> airflow from fan rotation by a country mile. if you were
>>>>>>>> boiling, you
>>>>>>>> had airflow restriction, thermostat problems or a gasket
>>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL! You come to Mass on a hot July day, and I'll take you for a
>>>>>>> ride. At 70MPH on the highway, when the fan kicks in it sounds
>>>>>>> like a B-17 trying to pass you! Oh, yeah, the fan kicks in! (It's
>>>>>>> attached to the crankshaft...not electric, and uses a
>>>>>>> heat-sensitive oil that thickens when hot and causes the fan to
>>>>>>> be driven, rather than just 'feathering'.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is new to me... A fan attached to the crankshaft??? What is
>>>>>> this vehicle?
>>>>>
>>>>> I may be showing my age...I'm not sure if it's actually on the
>>>>> crankshaft...(I'm sure it's not...)
>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, if you're going 70 mph and it (thermostatic clutch)
>>>>>> causes the fan to come on, most likely you either have too little
>>>>>> radiator or its plugged.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JT
>>>>>
>>>>> Everything seems OK, but the previous owner sunk $1100 into the
>>>>> cooling system...
>>>>>
>>>> doesn't mean they knew what they were doing. i knew a guy spend
>>>> thousands on "cooling problems" for a rear engine, front radiator
>>>> car he was trying to race. constant overheating. he, and a number
>>>> of other "race mechanics" failed to see the significance of a 3/4"
>>>> home-built water manifold bolted onto where the thermostat was
>>>> supposed to be. whoda thunk to consider effect of such a small pipe
>>>> on coolant flow!!!
>>>>
>>>> bottom line, these vehicles ship from factory having been tested at
>>>> full throttle, fully loaded, in summer, in death valley. if yours
>>>> is overheating just tooling along the highway without aftermarket
>>>> assistance, there's something wrong. and it's not the fan.
>>>
>>> About thirty years ago while returning home from a car show with my
>>> 1956 Studebaker Hawk, the temperature gauge began to rise. I pulled
>>> over and
>>> saw that the fan belt had "disappeared." At any rate, the rest of
>>> the
>>> drive was on a freeway and I surmised that I could get home since the
>>> incoming air would drive the water pump as well as cool the radiator
>>> so long as I kept up a reasonable speed. The gauge never went above
>>> 180°.
>>>
>>> Sometimes, "old" can be better...
>>>
>>> JT
>>>
>>>
>> that's not "old", it's simply designing the heat dumper to match the
>> heat generator. with an electric radiator fan, no healthy car will
>> use anything other than airflow cooling on the freeway.
>>
>
> Autos use electric fans purposely so they don't have to draw engine power
> to turn the radiator fan when it's not needed;when the vehicle is at speed
> and there's plenty of natural airflow.
>
> The old belt driven fans changed to plastic blades because they could
> flatten out at higher speeds

by "flatten out" do you mean a variable pitch fan blade? that's
somewhat exotic and rather expensive. what used them?

> and draw less power from the motor.
> Electric fans were just the next step after that for economy.
>

 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in
> news:xf2dnaFbbNr906TbnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>
>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 01 May 2007 17:21:57 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:24:24 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> snip
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the fans don't work on the highway - airflow from car movement
>>>>>>>> exceeds
>>>>>>>> airflow from fan rotation by a country mile. if you were
>>>>>>>> boiling, you
>>>>>>>> had airflow restriction, thermostat problems or a gasket
>>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL! You come to Mass on a hot July day, and I'll take you for a
>>>>>>> ride. At 70MPH on the highway, when the fan kicks in it sounds
>>>>>>> like a B-17 trying to pass you! Oh, yeah, the fan kicks in! (It's
>>>>>>> attached to the crankshaft...not electric, and uses a
>>>>>>> heat-sensitive oil that thickens when hot and causes the fan to
>>>>>>> be driven, rather than just 'feathering'.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is new to me... A fan attached to the crankshaft??? What is
>>>>>> this vehicle?
>>>>>
>>>>> I may be showing my age...I'm not sure if it's actually on the
>>>>> crankshaft...(I'm sure it's not...)
>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, if you're going 70 mph and it (thermostatic clutch)
>>>>>> causes the fan to come on, most likely you either have too little
>>>>>> radiator or its plugged.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JT
>>>>>
>>>>> Everything seems OK, but the previous owner sunk $1100 into the
>>>>> cooling system...
>>>>>
>>>> doesn't mean they knew what they were doing. i knew a guy spend
>>>> thousands on "cooling problems" for a rear engine, front radiator
>>>> car he was trying to race. constant overheating. he, and a number
>>>> of other "race mechanics" failed to see the significance of a 3/4"
>>>> home-built water manifold bolted onto where the thermostat was
>>>> supposed to be. whoda thunk to consider effect of such a small pipe
>>>> on coolant flow!!!
>>>>
>>>> bottom line, these vehicles ship from factory having been tested at
>>>> full throttle, fully loaded, in summer, in death valley. if yours
>>>> is overheating just tooling along the highway without aftermarket
>>>> assistance, there's something wrong. and it's not the fan.
>>>
>>> About thirty years ago while returning home from a car show with my
>>> 1956 Studebaker Hawk, the temperature gauge began to rise. I pulled
>>> over and
>>> saw that the fan belt had "disappeared." At any rate, the rest of
>>> the
>>> drive was on a freeway and I surmised that I could get home since the
>>> incoming air would drive the water pump as well as cool the radiator
>>> so long as I kept up a reasonable speed. The gauge never went above
>>> 180°.
>>>
>>> Sometimes, "old" can be better...
>>>
>>> JT
>>>
>>>
>> that's not "old", it's simply designing the heat dumper to match the
>> heat generator. with an electric radiator fan, no healthy car will
>> use anything other than airflow cooling on the freeway.
>>
>
> Autos use electric fans purposely so they don't have to draw engine power
> to turn the radiator fan when it's not needed;when the vehicle is at speed
> and there's plenty of natural airflow.
>
> The old belt driven fans changed to plastic blades because they could
> flatten out at higher speeds

by "flatten out" do you mean a variable pitch fan blade? that's
somewhat exotic and rather expensive. what used them?

> and draw less power from the motor.
> Electric fans were just the next step after that for economy.
>

 

On Wed, 02 May 2007 21:29:25 -0700, jim beam wrote:

>> The old belt driven fans changed to plastic blades because they could
>> flatten out at higher speeds
>
> by "flatten out" do you mean a variable pitch fan blade? that's somewhat
> exotic and rather expensive. what used them?


My Supra has one. Also a Celica I had ('85) and an '85 Corolla.

Most of the fans post 75 or so are plastic, one reason being weight and
the other being the flexability of plastic. I can't remember the last time
I saw a metal fan!