"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
newsan.2005.09.21.01.40.18.589602@ae86.gts...
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:26:09 +0100, NeedforSwede2 wrote:
>
>> In article <pan.2005.09.20.12.57.44.675290@ae86.gts>, Trueno@ae86.gts
>> says...
>>> if there ARE any nice, solid, dependable Euro cars, we AIN'T getting
>>> them
>>> over here!
>>>
>> Thing is.
>> I'm selling my Celica GT4/Alltrac. It has 147k miles on it. It is too
>> thirsty and expensive to maintain.
>>
>> I've bought a Saab convertible. 2 years newer, 212k miles, body is in
>> about same condition maybe better. Big ends were gone. So the last owner
>> totally rebuilt it, fitted a recon box and turbo at the same time.
>>
>> The suspension is fine, the steering is good, because it is a
>> convertible there is more rattle and scuttle shake, but it drives great,
>> and uses far less fuel. Oh and they are reliable.
>
> Saabs, and most Euro cars over here, seem to be a 50/50 proposition for
> some reason.
>
> The most you ever see a Euro car over here is sitting outside the repair
> center...
>
> Even the Big Boys, M-B and BMW spend more time on the lift than on the
> road.
>
> BTW, I saw a NICE, REALLY NICE 2002 yesterday. Some young lady owns it,
> says it's her second.
>
> i am trusting she will park it before the first snowflakes...


I am from Pennsylvania, over here in the states, and I was wondering how
everyone in Europe gets along without driving a pickup. I never see any
pickups on the road over there whenever I watch "The Amazing Race" or news
stories involving Europe. Are we Americans addicted to pickups for no
reason? I know most American families survived without them during the '50s
and most of the '60s. I love small economical vehicles. I am amazed at the
different makes and models available to Europeans and not to the US market.
A majority of the vehicles over here that are on the road are gas guzzling
bricks on wheels.

On another note, remember that Mercedes has been contaminated by Chrysler -
but I don't know why BMW is having reliability problems as of late.

 

Buyers buy the vehicles they want and can afford. In Europe vehicles and
fuel are heavy taxed to pay for their socialist system of government so they
can get FREE medical care etc, making it more expensive to own a operate a
car. There are plenty of vehicles available in the US from domestic and
import brands, for those the choose to buy them, but apparently few choose
to do so. If buyers can afford to buy larger safer vehicles they will do
so. The recent spike in gas prices did not slow larger vehicle sales as much
as it increased small vehicle sales. Apparently those that could afforded
to buy the vehicles they wanted continued to do so and some went out a
bought a small vehicles to use as well. It was the poorer folks, that can
not afford to buy larger safer vehicles, that were effect by high gas prices
not those that drive the larger safer vehicles. It was the small car buyers
that cut back on their driving or converted some of their discressionary
spending over to fuel.. WalMart and McDonalds were effected butt upper
class stores and restaurants. Unlike Europe, Americas population is more
out over the country where their is little or no public
transportation and people need cars and trucks in their daily work and
lives.



"Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:-JSdnbcD_fieHazeRVn-tw@adelphia.com...
>
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> newsan.2005.09.21.01.40.18.589602@ae86.gts...
>> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:26:09 +0100, NeedforSwede2 wrote:
>>
>>> In article <pan.2005.09.20.12.57.44.675290@ae86.gts>, Trueno@ae86.gts
>>> says...
>>>> if there ARE any nice, solid, dependable Euro cars, we AIN'T getting
>>>> them
>>>> over here!
>>>>
>>> Thing is.
>>> I'm selling my Celica GT4/Alltrac. It has 147k miles on it. It is too
>>> thirsty and expensive to maintain.
>>>
>>> I've bought a Saab convertible. 2 years newer, 212k miles, body is in
>>> about same condition maybe better. Big ends were gone. So the last owner
>>> totally rebuilt it, fitted a recon box and turbo at the same time.
>>>
>>> The suspension is fine, the steering is good, because it is a
>>> convertible there is more rattle and scuttle shake, but it drives great,
>>> and uses far less fuel. Oh and they are reliable.
>>
>> Saabs, and most Euro cars over here, seem to be a 50/50 proposition for
>> some reason.
>>
>> The most you ever see a Euro car over here is sitting outside the repair
>> center...
>>
>> Even the Big Boys, M-B and BMW spend more time on the lift than on the
>> road.
>>
>> BTW, I saw a NICE, REALLY NICE 2002 yesterday. Some young lady owns it,
>> says it's her second.
>>
>> i am trusting she will park it before the first snowflakes...
>
>
> I am from Pennsylvania, over here in the states, and I was wondering how
> everyone in Europe gets along without driving a pickup. I never see any
> pickups on the road over there whenever I watch "The Amazing Race" or news
> stories involving Europe. Are we Americans addicted to pickups for no
> reason? I know most American families survived without them during the
> '50s and most of the '60s. I love small economical vehicles. I am amazed
> at the different makes and models available to Europeans and not to the US
> market. A majority of the vehicles over here that are on the road are gas
> guzzling bricks on wheels.
>
> On another note, remember that Mercedes has been contaminated by
> Chrysler - but I don't know why BMW is having reliability problems as of
> late.
>

 

Mike Hunter wrote:
> Buyers buy the vehicles they want and can afford. In Europe vehicles and
> fuel are heavy taxed to pay for their socialist system of government so they
> can get FREE medical care etc, making it more expensive to own a operate a
> car. There are plenty of vehicles available in the US from domestic and
> import brands, for those the choose to buy them, but apparently few choose
> to do so. If buyers can afford to buy larger safer vehicles they will do
> so.

i'd /love/ to know where this "larger safer vehicles" myth comes from.
have you ever looked at any of the insurer or nhtsa fatality stats?
suvs kill many more times the number of their occupants than cars. it's
because they're so unstable and because there are no rules regarding
cabin crush safety like there are cars. c'mon guy, get with the facts.

> The recent spike in gas prices did not slow larger vehicle sales as much
> as it increased small vehicle sales. Apparently those that could afforded
> to buy the vehicles they wanted continued to do so and some went out a
> bought a small vehicles to use as well. It was the poorer folks, that can
> not afford to buy larger safer vehicles, that were effect by high gas prices
> not those that drive the larger safer vehicles. It was the small car buyers
> that cut back on their driving or converted some of their discressionary
> spending over to fuel.. WalMart and McDonalds were effected butt upper
> class stores and restaurants. Unlike Europe, Americas population is more
> out over the country where their is little or no public
> transportation and people need cars and trucks in their daily work and
> lives.
>
>
>
> "Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:-JSdnbcD_fieHazeRVn-tw@adelphia.com...
>
>>"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>>newsan.2005.09.21.01.40.18.589602@ae86.gts.. .
>>
>>>On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:26:09 +0100, NeedforSwede2 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article <pan.2005.09.20.12.57.44.675290@ae86.gts>, Trueno@ae86.gts
>>>>says...
>>>>
>>>>>if there ARE any nice, solid, dependable Euro cars, we AIN'T getting
>>>>>them
>>>>>over here!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thing is.
>>>>I'm selling my Celica GT4/Alltrac. It has 147k miles on it. It is too
>>>>thirsty and expensive to maintain.
>>>>
>>>>I've bought a Saab convertible. 2 years newer, 212k miles, body is in
>>>>about same condition maybe better. Big ends were gone. So the last owner
>>>>totally rebuilt it, fitted a recon box and turbo at the same time.
>>>>
>>>>The suspension is fine, the steering is good, because it is a
>>>>convertible there is more rattle and scuttle shake, but it drives great,
>>>>and uses far less fuel. Oh and they are reliable.
>>>
>>>Saabs, and most Euro cars over here, seem to be a 50/50 proposition for
>>>some reason.
>>>
>>>The most you ever see a Euro car over here is sitting outside the repair
>>>center...
>>>
>>>Even the Big Boys, M-B and BMW spend more time on the lift than on the
>>>road.
>>>
>>>BTW, I saw a NICE, REALLY NICE 2002 yesterday. Some young lady owns it,
>>>says it's her second.
>>>
>>>i am trusting she will park it before the first snowflakes...
>>
>>
>>I am from Pennsylvania, over here in the states, and I was wondering how
>>everyone in Europe gets along without driving a pickup. I never see any
>>pickups on the road over there whenever I watch "The Amazing Race" or news
>>stories involving Europe. Are we Americans addicted to pickups for no
>>reason? I know most American families survived without them during the
>>'50s and most of the '60s. I love small economical vehicles. I am amazed
>>at the different makes and models available to Europeans and not to the US
>>market. A majority of the vehicles over here that are on the road are gas
>>guzzling bricks on wheels.
>>
>>On another note, remember that Mercedes has been contaminated by
>>Chrysler - but I don't know why BMW is having reliability problems as of
>>late.
>>
>
>
>

 

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:45:12 -0400, Bob Palmer wrote:

>
> "Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
> newsan.2005.09.21.01.40.18.589602@ae86.gts...
>> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:26:09 +0100, NeedforSwede2 wrote:
>>
>>> In article <pan.2005.09.20.12.57.44.675290@ae86.gts>, Trueno@ae86.gts
>>> says...
>>>> if there ARE any nice, solid, dependable Euro cars, we AIN'T getting
>>>> them
>>>> over here!
>>>>
>>> Thing is.
>>> I'm selling my Celica GT4/Alltrac. It has 147k miles on it. It is too
>>> thirsty and expensive to maintain.
>>>
>>> I've bought a Saab convertible. 2 years newer, 212k miles, body is in
>>> about same condition maybe better. Big ends were gone. So the last owner
>>> totally rebuilt it, fitted a recon box and turbo at the same time.
>>>
>>> The suspension is fine, the steering is good, because it is a
>>> convertible there is more rattle and scuttle shake, but it drives great,
>>> and uses far less fuel. Oh and they are reliable.
>>
>> Saabs, and most Euro cars over here, seem to be a 50/50 proposition for
>> some reason.
>>
>> The most you ever see a Euro car over here is sitting outside the repair
>> center...
>>
>> Even the Big Boys, M-B and BMW spend more time on the lift than on the
>> road.
>>
>> BTW, I saw a NICE, REALLY NICE 2002 yesterday. Some young lady owns it,
>> says it's her second.
>>
>> i am trusting she will park it before the first snowflakes...
>
>
> I am from Pennsylvania, over here in the states, and I was wondering how
> everyone in Europe gets along without driving a pickup. I never see any
> pickups on the road over there whenever I watch "The Amazing Race" or news
> stories involving Europe. Are we Americans addicted to pickups for no
> reason? I know most American families survived without them during the '50s
> and most of the '60s. I love small economical vehicles. I am amazed at the
> different makes and models available to Europeans and not to the US market.
> A majority of the vehicles over here that are on the road are gas guzzling
> bricks on wheels.
>
> On another note, remember that Mercedes has been contaminated by Chrysler -
> but I don't know why BMW is having reliability problems as of late.


LOL. I thought Chryslr was getting a leg up from M-B!

My college roommate had a 2002 Tii. Amazing car! Drove like on rails. Was
3 years old. Couldn't pass the local BMW dealer...

Same with my '73 Volvo 1800ES, 3 years old, 52,000 miles.

Amazing cars, nickle and dime you (well, a couple Franklins here and
there) out of your bank account!

Wife (er, EX, that is) has a '94 325i with 45,000 when she bought it, now
has 80,000, always calling me with issues. Is on it's THIRD tranny...

 

You better do a bit more research, if that is what you believe, because your
information is not based on facts. Only around 2% of ALL of the hundreds of
thousand accidents in the US involve a rollover and the majority of
rollovers are the result of striking, or being struck by something, not from
instability.. The fast majority of ALL accidents are frontal collisions.
The larger the vehicle the less likely properly belted passengers will be
injured or killed. If a vehicles height actually made it more likely for it
to rollover one should expect to see six wheel trucks rolled over on a daily
basis.

mike



"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:AIKdnd2F1L-1FKzeRVn-qw@speakeasy.net...
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Buyers buy the vehicles they want and can afford. In Europe vehicles and
>> fuel are heavy taxed to pay for their socialist system of government so
>> they can get FREE medical care etc, making it more expensive to own a
>> operate a car. There are plenty of vehicles available in the US from
>> domestic and import brands, for those the choose to buy them, but
>> apparently few choose to do so. If buyers can afford to buy larger
>> safer vehicles they will do so.
>
> i'd /love/ to know where this "larger safer vehicles" myth comes from.
> have you ever looked at any of the insurer or nhtsa fatality stats? suvs
> kill many more times the number of their occupants than cars. it's
> because they're so unstable and because there are no rules regarding cabin
> crush safety like there are cars. c'mon guy, get with the facts.
>
>> The recent spike in gas prices did not slow larger vehicle sales as much
>> as it increased small vehicle sales. Apparently those that could
>> afforded to buy the vehicles they wanted continued to do so and some went
>> out a bought a small vehicles to use as well. It was the poorer folks,
>> that can not afford to buy larger safer vehicles, that were effect by
>> high gas prices not those that drive the larger safer vehicles. It was
>> the small car buyers that cut back on their driving or converted some of
>> their discressionary spending over to fuel.. WalMart and McDonalds were
>> effected butt upper class stores and restaurants. Unlike Europe,
>> Americas population is more out over the country where their is
>> little or no public transportation and people need cars and trucks in
>> their daily work and lives.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>> news:-JSdnbcD_fieHazeRVn-tw@adelphia.com...
>>
>>>"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>>>newsan.2005.09.21.01.40.18.589602@ae86.gts. ..
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:26:09 +0100, NeedforSwede2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <pan.2005.09.20.12.57.44.675290@ae86.gts>, Trueno@ae86.gts
>>>>>says...
>>>>>
>>>>>>if there ARE any nice, solid, dependable Euro cars, we AIN'T getting
>>>>>>them
>>>>>>over here!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thing is.
>>>>>I'm selling my Celica GT4/Alltrac. It has 147k miles on it. It is too
>>>>>thirsty and expensive to maintain.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've bought a Saab convertible. 2 years newer, 212k miles, body is in
>>>>>about same condition maybe better. Big ends were gone. So the last
>>>>>owner
>>>>>totally rebuilt it, fitted a recon box and turbo at the same time.
>>>>>
>>>>>The suspension is fine, the steering is good, because it is a
>>>>>convertible there is more rattle and scuttle shake, but it drives
>>>>>great,
>>>>>and uses far less fuel. Oh and they are reliable.
>>>>
>>>>Saabs, and most Euro cars over here, seem to be a 50/50 proposition for
>>>>some reason.
>>>>
>>>>The most you ever see a Euro car over here is sitting outside the repair
>>>>center...
>>>>
>>>>Even the Big Boys, M-B and BMW spend more time on the lift than on the
>>>>road.
>>>>
>>>>BTW, I saw a NICE, REALLY NICE 2002 yesterday. Some young lady owns it,
>>>>says it's her second.
>>>>
>>>>i am trusting she will park it before the first snowflakes...
>>>
>>>
>>>I am from Pennsylvania, over here in the states, and I was wondering how
>>>everyone in Europe gets along without driving a pickup. I never see any
>>>pickups on the road over there whenever I watch "The Amazing Race" or
>>>news stories involving Europe. Are we Americans addicted to pickups for
>>>no reason? I know most American families survived without them during the
>>>'50s and most of the '60s. I love small economical vehicles. I am amazed
>>>at the different makes and models available to Europeans and not to the
>>>US market. A majority of the vehicles over here that are on the road are
>>>gas guzzling bricks on wheels.
>>>
>>>On another note, remember that Mercedes has been contaminated by
>>>Chrysler - but I don't know why BMW is having reliability problems as of
>>>late.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

 

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:34:39 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:22:38 +0100, NeedforSwede2 wrote:
>
>> In article <pan.2005.09.20.12.22.53.340414@ae86.gts>, Trueno@ae86.gts
>> says...
>>> Unless you're really strapped for cash, though, I would stay away from ANY
>>> Diesel! I don't think there is a company out there that has their ****
>>> together on Diesles!
>>>
>> Europe is a totally different ball game for oil burners.
>> They are the biggest sellers in the non-luxury large car markets, making
>> grounds in the luxury large car markets, and the medium family car
>> markets.
>> Even some of the "Hot Hatch" small hatch back models by
>> VW/Seat/Skoda/Audi have the best performance model being a turbo diesel.
>>
>> With petrol in europe being so expensive, performance diesels are just
>> as popular because of the better fuel consumption. Oh and some of them
>> "run fine" of Veg oils and bio diesel fuels.
>
>Yeah, I know diesels are a lot more popular in Yurrip, but our experience
>over here is that, unless you're running a Kenworth or something with a
>Cummins in it, stay away.

Well yeah, if you will insist on running 20yo diesel engine designs,
expect them to behave like 20yo designs. Spent sunday helping a friend
work on a F250 with a 7.3l powerstroke diesel. That engine design was
older than the 1.9 diesel a friend had in his 93 Ford fiesta company
van

When you start getting modern Diesel fuel, you'll get modern diesel
engines.

>
>The exception being the Rabbit ('75-82 Golf) diesels, esp the little
>trucklet they made. Those seem to run forever with about the same
>maintenance one would put into a Corolla...sometimes, that is. I've seen
>them with a half a mil on them!
>
>Thanks, Skoda-Sleeker-NeedFor...
>
>I guess the meatballs are ON, eh?

 

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:45:12 -0400, "Bob Palmer"
<jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote:

>
>
>I am from Pennsylvania, over here in the states, and I was wondering how
>everyone in Europe gets along without driving a pickup. I never see any
>pickups on the road over there whenever I watch "The Amazing Race" or news
>stories involving Europe. Are we Americans addicted to pickups for no
>reason? I know most American families survived without them during the '50s
>and most of the '60s. I love small economical vehicles. I am amazed at the
>different makes and models available to Europeans and not to the US market.
>A majority of the vehicles over here that are on the road are gas guzzling
>bricks on wheels.
>
BBC's top gear did a review of an F150 in the UK a few months back.
Actually it was the F150 lightning, but still. Anyway

Pro - 2/3 seats, qualified for commercial vehicle rates, large load
area, car-like driving position
cons - huge reletively unpowerfull engine, handles like , load
area open.

There are *some* pickups, but they're not common, mainly rangers and
hi-lux (a downloadable clip on bbc.co.uk/topgear/ does show them
trying to destroy a hi-lux pickup - a must watch) but the drop-side
transit is far more popular. Its not hard to see why either. The load
capacity is greater, the engine more efficient, and, you can drop the
sides, makes it more of a flat-bed with fencing. For everyday work,
you've got a range of vans, of variosu sizes, from car-based ones
capable of taking a full pallet with a car front-end, to long
wheelbase hi-cube vans with a 3.5ton GMVW. Did i mention that these
are enclosed, so hearer to steal from, and also more efficient, since
you've not got the bed's door acting like a 'chute. They're not even
that slow - a standard road legal Diesel transit can manage the
nurenburg ring in just over 10 minutes.


In short, pickups are too over-engined for family use (engines detuned
for those damned slush-boxes) fuel inefficient, don't drive very
nicely (poor handling and turning circles) and leave anything carried
easily stealable.

 

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:26:06 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:

>You better do a bit more research, if that is what you believe, because your
>information is not based on facts. Only around 2% of ALL of the hundreds of
>thousand accidents in the US involve a rollover and the majority of
>rollovers are the result of striking, or being struck by something, not from
>instability.. The fast majority of ALL accidents are frontal collisions.
>The larger the vehicle the less likely properly belted passengers will be
>injured or killed. If a vehicles height actually made it more likely for it
>to rollover one should expect to see six wheel trucks rolled over on a daily
>basis.
>
>mike

You should think about what you're saying. Height is not the be all
and end all, neither is mass. Build a 10ft tall car made of lead. Fact
is, high cars tend to kill people in the OTHER car. a frontal-colision
(aka a dual front-on collision) is not the most common either - no
idea where you got that preosterous notion from. Maybe a lack of
research

The safer cars are ones with an integrated safety system wih full
energy dissipation. I always come back to the last major accident i
was in - a brand new VR6 golf hit the rear of my Volvo340 in september
2000 at the end of a british motorway. The golf was scrap, mine needed
minor repairs only.

There was also a demonstrative video i saw a few months back. Showed a
4x4 hitting a regular car. a Shogun, and a civic iirc. in a side
impact. Well, the high front on the shogun oblitirated the passenger
compartment of the civic, then the height of the shogun rode OVER the
civic, and rolled over itself. Typical of car-SUV crashes in fact
(except a rear-ender). This is how nice tall vehicles roll over.

Next time, if you're going to critisize soeone saying they've not done
any research, try actually doing some yourself first.

>
>
>
>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>news:AIKdnd2F1L-1FKzeRVn-qw@speakeasy.net...
>> Mike Hunter wrote:
>>> Buyers buy the vehicles they want and can afford. In Europe vehicles and
>>> fuel are heavy taxed to pay for their socialist system of government so
>>> they can get FREE medical care etc, making it more expensive to own a
>>> operate a car. There are plenty of vehicles available in the US from
>>> domestic and import brands, for those the choose to buy them, but
>>> apparently few choose to do so. If buyers can afford to buy larger
>>> safer vehicles they will do so.
>>
>> i'd /love/ to know where this "larger safer vehicles" myth comes from.
>> have you ever looked at any of the insurer or nhtsa fatality stats? suvs
>> kill many more times the number of their occupants than cars. it's
>> because they're so unstable and because there are no rules regarding cabin
>> crush safety like there are cars. c'mon guy, get with the facts.
>>
>>> The recent spike in gas prices did not slow larger vehicle sales as much
>>> as it increased small vehicle sales. Apparently those that could
>>> afforded to buy the vehicles they wanted continued to do so and some went
>>> out a bought a small vehicles to use as well. It was the poorer folks,
>>> that can not afford to buy larger safer vehicles, that were effect by
>>> high gas prices not those that drive the larger safer vehicles. It was
>>> the small car buyers that cut back on their driving or converted some of
>>> their discressionary spending over to fuel.. WalMart and McDonalds were
>>> effected butt upper class stores and restaurants. Unlike Europe,
>>> Americas population is more out over the country where their is
>>> little or no public transportation and people need cars and trucks in
>>> their daily work and lives.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>>> news:-JSdnbcD_fieHazeRVn-tw@adelphia.com...
>>>
>>>>"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>>>>newsan.2005.09.21.01.40.18.589602@ae86.gts.. .
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:26:09 +0100, NeedforSwede2 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article <pan.2005.09.20.12.57.44.675290@ae86.gts>, Trueno@ae86.gts
>>>>>>says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>if there ARE any nice, solid, dependable Euro cars, we AIN'T getting
>>>>>>>them
>>>>>>>over here!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thing is.
>>>>>>I'm selling my Celica GT4/Alltrac. It has 147k miles on it. It is too
>>>>>>thirsty and expensive to maintain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've bought a Saab convertible. 2 years newer, 212k miles, body is in
>>>>>>about same condition maybe better. Big ends were gone. So the last
>>>>>>owner
>>>>>>totally rebuilt it, fitted a recon box and turbo at the same time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The suspension is fine, the steering is good, because it is a
>>>>>>convertible there is more rattle and scuttle shake, but it drives
>>>>>>great,
>>>>>>and uses far less fuel. Oh and they are reliable.
>>>>>
>>>>>Saabs, and most Euro cars over here, seem to be a 50/50 proposition for
>>>>>some reason.
>>>>>
>>>>>The most you ever see a Euro car over here is sitting outside the repair
>>>>>center...
>>>>>
>>>>>Even the Big Boys, M-B and BMW spend more time on the lift than on the
>>>>>road.
>>>>>
>>>>>BTW, I saw a NICE, REALLY NICE 2002 yesterday. Some young lady owns it,
>>>>>says it's her second.
>>>>>
>>>>>i am trusting she will park it before the first snowflakes...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I am from Pennsylvania, over here in the states, and I was wondering how
>>>>everyone in Europe gets along without driving a pickup. I never see any
>>>>pickups on the road over there whenever I watch "The Amazing Race" or
>>>>news stories involving Europe. Are we Americans addicted to pickups for
>>>>no reason? I know most American families survived without them during the
>>>>'50s and most of the '60s. I love small economical vehicles. I am amazed
>>>>at the different makes and models available to Europeans and not to the
>>>>US market. A majority of the vehicles over here that are on the road are
>>>>gas guzzling bricks on wheels.
>>>>
>>>>On another note, remember that Mercedes has been contaminated by
>>>>Chrysler - but I don't know why BMW is having reliability problems as of
>>>>late.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

 

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:19:50 -0400, flobert wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:34:39 GMT, Hachiroku <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:22:38 +0100, NeedforSwede2 wrote:
>>
>>> In article <pan.2005.09.20.12.22.53.340414@ae86.gts>, Trueno@ae86.gts
>>> says...
>>>> Unless you're really strapped for cash, though, I would stay away from ANY
>>>> Diesel! I don't think there is a company out there that has their ****
>>>> together on Diesles!
>>>>
>>> Europe is a totally different ball game for oil burners.
>>> They are the biggest sellers in the non-luxury large car markets, making
>>> grounds in the luxury large car markets, and the medium family car
>>> markets.
>>> Even some of the "Hot Hatch" small hatch back models by
>>> VW/Seat/Skoda/Audi have the best performance model being a turbo diesel.
>>>
>>> With petrol in europe being so expensive, performance diesels are just
>>> as popular because of the better fuel consumption. Oh and some of them
>>> "run fine" of Veg oils and bio diesel fuels.
>>
>>Yeah, I know diesels are a lot more popular in Yurrip, but our experience
>>over here is that, unless you're running a Kenworth or something with a
>>Cummins in it, stay away.
>
> Well yeah, if you will insist on running 20yo diesel engine designs,
> expect them to behave like 20yo designs. Spent sunday helping a friend
> work on a F250 with a 7.3l powerstroke diesel. That engine design was
> older than the 1.9 diesel a friend had in his 93 Ford fiesta company
> van

The 7.3 is a fairly decent engine. International built.

>
> When you start getting modern Diesel fuel, you'll get modern diesel
> engines.
>
>>
>>The exception being the Rabbit ('75-82 Golf) diesels, esp the little
>>trucklet they made. Those seem to run forever with about the same
>>maintenance one would put into a Corolla...sometimes, that is. I've seen
>>them with a half a mil on them!
>>
>>Thanks, Skoda-Sleeker-NeedFor...
>>
>>I guess the meatballs are ON, eh?

 

You can choose to believe whatever you wish, you are entitled to you own
opinion, I'm not going to debate someones opinion. I am a retired
automotive engineer, with a degree is metallurgy. The facts concerning
crash dynamics I posted where not an opinion, they are based on my
experience in automobile crash dynamics gained during my thirty years as an
automotive design engineer involved with body structure. I helped design
those crumple zones and SRS systems. The larger the vehicle the more
efficiently they do the job for which they are designed, that is to reduce
the terminal speed at which ones organs strike one skeleton, referred to as
the 'third collision.' The second being when ones body strikes their belt
and SRS system restraints. One can not defy the laws of physics. In nine
out of ten collisions the larger the vehicle the less likely proper belted
passengers will be injured or killed, period. Those that hate SUVs and do
not want others to drive them like to distort the facts about accidents to
favor their cause. I don't own an SUV, I drive only larger RWD vehicles.
From what I know I will never ride in a small FWD car just to save a few
hundred dollar a year on fuel.

mike


"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:9tj3j1dpiuaims4lcs2njp53cic7l108ke@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:26:06 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
> <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:
>
>>You better do a bit more research, if that is what you believe, because
>>your
>>information is not based on facts. Only around 2% of ALL of the hundreds
>>of
>>thousand accidents in the US involve a rollover and the majority of
>>rollovers are the result of striking, or being struck by something, not
>>from
>>instability.. The fast majority of ALL accidents are frontal collisions.
>>The larger the vehicle the less likely properly belted passengers will be
>>injured or killed. If a vehicles height actually made it more likely for
>>it
>>to rollover one should expect to see six wheel trucks rolled over on a
>>daily
>>basis.
>>
>>mike
>
> The safer cars are ones with an integrated safety system wih full energy
> dissipation.

 

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:35:30 -0400, flobert wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:45:12 -0400, "Bob Palmer"
> <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>I am from Pennsylvania, over here in the states, and I was wondering how
>>everyone in Europe gets along without driving a pickup. I never see any
>>pickups on the road over there whenever I watch "The Amazing Race" or news
>>stories involving Europe. Are we Americans addicted to pickups for no
>>reason? I know most American families survived without them during the '50s
>>and most of the '60s. I love small economical vehicles. I am amazed at the
>>different makes and models available to Europeans and not to the US market.
>>A majority of the vehicles over here that are on the road are gas guzzling
>>bricks on wheels.
>>
> BBC's top gear did a review of an F150 in the UK a few months back.
> Actually it was the F150 lightning, but still. Anyway
>
> Pro - 2/3 seats, qualified for commercial vehicle rates, large load
> area, car-like driving position
> cons - huge reletively unpowerfull engine, handles like , load
> area open.

Hmmmm....my boss had a Lightening and I asked for a 'ride', he said "Key's
in it" didn't have to tell ME twice.

I thought it was a pretty damn good truck for a '68 Corvette!
The fact that it handled that well and that fast amazed me.

>
> There are *some* pickups, but they're not common, mainly rangers and
> hi-lux (a downloadable clip on bbc.co.uk/topgear/ does show them
> trying to destroy a hi-lux pickup - a must watch)

I've actually seen that on US telly and on the web.

but the drop-side
> transit is far more popular. Its not hard to see why either. The load
> capacity is greater, the engine more efficient, and, you can drop the
> sides, makes it more of a flat-bed with fencing. For everyday work,
> you've got a range of vans, of variosu sizes, from car-based ones
> capable of taking a full pallet with a car front-end, to long
> wheelbase hi-cube vans with a 3.5ton GMVW. Did i mention that these
> are enclosed, so hearer to steal from, and also more efficient, since
> you've not got the bed's door acting like a 'chute. They're not even
> that slow - a standard road legal Diesel transit can manage the
> nurenburg ring in just over 10 minutes.
>
>
> In short, pickups are too over-engined for family use (engines detuned
> for those damned slush-boxes) fuel inefficient, don't drive very
> nicely (poor handling and turning circles) and leave anything carried
> easily stealable.

 

Mike Hunter wrote:
> You can choose to believe whatever you wish, you are entitled to you own
> opinion, I'm not going to debate someones opinion. I am a retired
> automotive engineer, with a degree is metallurgy. The facts concerning
> crash dynamics I posted where not an opinion, they are based on my
> experience in automobile crash dynamics gained during my thirty years as an
> automotive design engineer involved with body structure. I helped design
> those crumple zones and SRS systems. The larger the vehicle the more
> efficiently they do the job for which they are designed, that is to reduce
> the terminal speed at which ones organs strike one skeleton, referred to as
> the 'third collision.' The second being when ones body strikes their belt
> and SRS system restraints. One can not defy the laws of physics. In nine
> out of ten collisions the larger the vehicle the less likely proper belted
> passengers will be injured or killed, period. Those that hate SUVs and do
> not want others to drive them like to distort the facts about accidents to
> favor their cause.

since you bring up the subject of distortion;
http://www.bridger.us/2002/12/16/Cra...operVsFordF150

didn't work for ford did you?

> I don't own an SUV, I drive only larger RWD vehicles.
> From what I know I will never ride in a small FWD car just to save a few
> hundred dollar a year on fuel.
>
> mike
>
>
> "flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
> news:9tj3j1dpiuaims4lcs2njp53cic7l108ke@4ax.com...
>
>>On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:26:06 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
>><mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You better do a bit more research, if that is what you believe, because
>>>your
>>>information is not based on facts. Only around 2% of ALL of the hundreds
>>>of
>>>thousand accidents in the US involve a rollover and the majority of
>>>rollovers are the result of striking, or being struck by something, not
>>>from
>>>instability.. The fast majority of ALL accidents are frontal collisions.
>>>The larger the vehicle the less likely properly belted passengers will be
>>>injured or killed. If a vehicles height actually made it more likely for
>>>it
>>>to rollover one should expect to see six wheel trucks rolled over on a
>>>daily
>>>basis.
>>>
>>>mike
>>
>>The safer cars are ones with an integrated safety system wih full energy
>>dissipation.
>
>
>

 

I agree, SUVs may appear to be safer, and if they are involved with a
smaller vehicle in a crash they will be less affected, however, after the
initial crash, the spinning and barrel rolling will ultimately kill and
maim. In our state, the vehicles with the highest injury rate are SUVs and
motorcylces.
"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:AIKdnd2F1L-1FKzeRVn-qw@speakeasy.net...
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Buyers buy the vehicles they want and can afford. In Europe vehicles and
>> fuel are heavy taxed to pay for their socialist system of government so
>> they can get FREE medical care etc, making it more expensive to own a
>> operate a car. There are plenty of vehicles available in the US from
>> domestic and import brands, for those the choose to buy them, but
>> apparently few choose to do so. If buyers can afford to buy larger
>> safer vehicles they will do so.
>
> i'd /love/ to know where this "larger safer vehicles" myth comes from.
> have you ever looked at any of the insurer or nhtsa fatality stats? suvs
> kill many more times the number of their occupants than cars. it's
> because they're so unstable and because there are no rules regarding cabin
> crush safety like there are cars. c'mon guy, get with the facts.
>
>> The recent spike in gas prices did not slow larger vehicle sales as much
>> as it increased small vehicle sales. Apparently those that could
>> afforded to buy the vehicles they wanted continued to do so and some went
>> out a bought a small vehicles to use as well. It was the poorer folks,
>> that can not afford to buy larger safer vehicles, that were effect by
>> high gas prices not those that drive the larger safer vehicles. It was
>> the small car buyers that cut back on their driving or converted some of
>> their discressionary spending over to fuel.. WalMart and McDonalds were
>> effected butt upper class stores and restaurants. Unlike Europe,
>> Americas population is more out over the country where their is
>> little or no public transportation and people need cars and trucks in
>> their daily work and lives.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>> news:-JSdnbcD_fieHazeRVn-tw@adelphia.com...
>>
>>>"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>>>newsan.2005.09.21.01.40.18.589602@ae86.gts. ..
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:26:09 +0100, NeedforSwede2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <pan.2005.09.20.12.57.44.675290@ae86.gts>, Trueno@ae86.gts
>>>>>says...
>>>>>
>>>>>>if there ARE any nice, solid, dependable Euro cars, we AIN'T getting
>>>>>>them
>>>>>>over here!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thing is.
>>>>>I'm selling my Celica GT4/Alltrac. It has 147k miles on it. It is too
>>>>>thirsty and expensive to maintain.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've bought a Saab convertible. 2 years newer, 212k miles, body is in
>>>>>about same condition maybe better. Big ends were gone. So the last
>>>>>owner
>>>>>totally rebuilt it, fitted a recon box and turbo at the same time.
>>>>>
>>>>>The suspension is fine, the steering is good, because it is a
>>>>>convertible there is more rattle and scuttle shake, but it drives
>>>>>great,
>>>>>and uses far less fuel. Oh and they are reliable.
>>>>
>>>>Saabs, and most Euro cars over here, seem to be a 50/50 proposition for
>>>>some reason.
>>>>
>>>>The most you ever see a Euro car over here is sitting outside the repair
>>>>center...
>>>>
>>>>Even the Big Boys, M-B and BMW spend more time on the lift than on the
>>>>road.
>>>>
>>>>BTW, I saw a NICE, REALLY NICE 2002 yesterday. Some young lady owns it,
>>>>says it's her second.
>>>>
>>>>i am trusting she will park it before the first snowflakes...
>>>
>>>
>>>I am from Pennsylvania, over here in the states, and I was wondering how
>>>everyone in Europe gets along without driving a pickup. I never see any
>>>pickups on the road over there whenever I watch "The Amazing Race" or
>>>news stories involving Europe. Are we Americans addicted to pickups for
>>>no reason? I know most American families survived without them during the
>>>'50s and most of the '60s. I love small economical vehicles. I am amazed
>>>at the different makes and models available to Europeans and not to the
>>>US market. A majority of the vehicles over here that are on the road are
>>>gas guzzling bricks on wheels.
>>>
>>>On another note, remember that Mercedes has been contaminated by
>>>Chrysler - but I don't know why BMW is having reliability problems as of
>>>late.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

 

I disagree - the facts show the higher center of gravity, the worse off you
are. I watched an Explorer barrel roll with 5 kids in it after changing
lanes at 50 MPH - probably because the air pressure in the tires was to
high. I also watched a Jeep Grand Cherokee make a panic stop at 55 MPH with
it's rear end hopping all over and eventually rolling on its side. The next
time you see a Jeep pass you on the highway at 80, just know that if it
makes a panic stop, the family inside is s__t out of luck.
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:ykKdnTlb3-tMLqzeUSdV9g@ptd.net...
> You better do a bit more research, if that is what you believe, because
> your information is not based on facts. Only around 2% of ALL of the
> hundreds of thousand accidents in the US involve a rollover and the
> majority of rollovers are the result of striking, or being struck by
> something, not from instability.. The fast majority of ALL accidents are
> frontal collisions. The larger the vehicle the less likely properly belted
> passengers will be injured or killed. If a vehicles height actually made
> it more likely for it to rollover one should expect to see six wheel
> trucks rolled over on a daily basis.
>
> mike
>
>
>
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
> news:AIKdnd2F1L-1FKzeRVn-qw@speakeasy.net...
>> Mike Hunter wrote:
>>> Buyers buy the vehicles they want and can afford. In Europe vehicles
>>> and fuel are heavy taxed to pay for their socialist system of government
>>> so they can get FREE medical care etc, making it more expensive to own
>>> a operate a car. There are plenty of vehicles available in the US from
>>> domestic and import brands, for those the choose to buy them, but
>>> apparently few choose to do so. If buyers can afford to buy larger
>>> safer vehicles they will do so.
>>
>> i'd /love/ to know where this "larger safer vehicles" myth comes from.
>> have you ever looked at any of the insurer or nhtsa fatality stats? suvs
>> kill many more times the number of their occupants than cars. it's
>> because they're so unstable and because there are no rules regarding
>> cabin crush safety like there are cars. c'mon guy, get with the facts.
>>
>>> The recent spike in gas prices did not slow larger vehicle sales as much
>>> as it increased small vehicle sales. Apparently those that could
>>> afforded to buy the vehicles they wanted continued to do so and some
>>> went out a bought a small vehicles to use as well. It was the poorer
>>> folks, that can not afford to buy larger safer vehicles, that were
>>> effect by high gas prices not those that drive the larger safer
>>> vehicles. It was the small car buyers that cut back on their driving or
>>> converted some of their discressionary spending over to fuel.. WalMart
>>> and McDonalds were effected butt upper class stores and restaurants.
>>> Unlike Europe, Americas population is more out over the country
>>> where their is little or no public transportation and people need cars
>>> and trucks in their daily work and lives.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bob Palmer" <jenbobkatelyn@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>>> news:-JSdnbcD_fieHazeRVn-tw@adelphia.com...
>>>
>>>>"Hachiroku" <Trueno@ae86.gts> wrote in message
>>>>newsan.2005.09.21.01.40.18.589602@ae86.gts.. .
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:26:09 +0100, NeedforSwede2 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article <pan.2005.09.20.12.57.44.675290@ae86.gts>, Trueno@ae86.gts
>>>>>>says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>if there ARE any nice, solid, dependable Euro cars, we AIN'T getting
>>>>>>>them
>>>>>>>over here!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thing is.
>>>>>>I'm selling my Celica GT4/Alltrac. It has 147k miles on it. It is too
>>>>>>thirsty and expensive to maintain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've bought a Saab convertible. 2 years newer, 212k miles, body is in
>>>>>>about same condition maybe better. Big ends were gone. So the last
>>>>>>owner
>>>>>>totally rebuilt it, fitted a recon box and turbo at the same time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The suspension is fine, the steering is good, because it is a
>>>>>>convertible there is more rattle and scuttle shake, but it drives
>>>>>>great,
>>>>>>and uses far less fuel. Oh and they are reliable.
>>>>>
>>>>>Saabs, and most Euro cars over here, seem to be a 50/50 proposition for
>>>>>some reason.
>>>>>
>>>>>The most you ever see a Euro car over here is sitting outside the
>>>>>repair
>>>>>center...
>>>>>
>>>>>Even the Big Boys, M-B and BMW spend more time on the lift than on the
>>>>>road.
>>>>>
>>>>>BTW, I saw a NICE, REALLY NICE 2002 yesterday. Some young lady owns it,
>>>>>says it's her second.
>>>>>
>>>>>i am trusting she will park it before the first snowflakes...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I am from Pennsylvania, over here in the states, and I was wondering how
>>>>everyone in Europe gets along without driving a pickup. I never see any
>>>>pickups on the road over there whenever I watch "The Amazing Race" or
>>>>news stories involving Europe. Are we Americans addicted to pickups for
>>>>no reason? I know most American families survived without them during
>>>>the '50s and most of the '60s. I love small economical vehicles. I am
>>>>amazed at the different makes and models available to Europeans and not
>>>>to the US market. A majority of the vehicles over here that are on the
>>>>road are gas guzzling bricks on wheels.
>>>>
>>>>On another note, remember that Mercedes has been contaminated by
>>>>Chrysler - but I don't know why BMW is having reliability problems as of
>>>>late.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

 

> Ibiza Tdi (Have seen 130hp Tdis for just over £7k)
> http://tinyurl.com/bogs7

For performance against fuel and insurance cost I really don't think you can
beat these.

goto www.seatcupra.net/forums for more info