Because of my recent enhanced upderstanding of the safety features
listed below, and how my '05 Accord LX doesn't have them ...

Traction Control
Stability Control
Emergency Braking Assistance
Electronic Brakeforce Distribution

(newer Honda LXs have ...)
Rear disks
DRL

I decided to take a hard look at the Camry LE, versus what I'd have to
buy from Honda to get the features above. I already knew I couldn't get
the features in any LX / Special Edition / Special Value models with a
stick, and because I like a manual transmission, I'd have to go up to
the the EX with V6 and 6M.

Aside from power and handling, the Accord EX and Camry LE are very
different in character because of differences between the two in
handling, economy, convenience, and comfort, but controlling for as many
factors as possible, the Camry i4/5M LE looks like a heck of a value.

Beginning in 2007, Toyota includes so many of these features standard
for the Camry that the single "VS" (vehicle stability / traction) option
for $650 gets you all the safety features above.

That means if you can live with an i4/5M versus a V6/6M,
your MSRP savings for this level of safety is:

$27,850 V6/6M Honda EX
-20,680 i4/5M Camry (with VS option)
------
$ 7,170 or, 34.7 percent less for the Camry LE.

And if you really have to have the extra power of the V6/6A, the Camry
still wins as the 3.5L produces HP/Torque comparisons of:

268HP/248FT-LB, versus
244HP/211FT-LB for the Accord EX V6/6M

And better fuel economy, and at MSRP of $24,270 with
the VS option group included, is still $3,580 less than
the EX Accord.

But this is a digression, since you can't get the V6 Camry with a stick,
(which I want), and don't want the extra horses if it means giving up up
the stick. (If you like automatics, this could an even sweeter deal for
you ...)

Focusing on our original comparison, and limiting ourselves to how the
cars are different ...

Honda EX V6/6M

More power, sportier handling
Alloys
Sunroof
Remote anti-theft
Leather seats & trim for doors, shifter, steering
Heated seats & mirrors
Folding rear bench w/ pass-thru
Remote window operation
Universal remote transmitter (garage/alarm)
Dual climate control
Illuminated vanity mirrors
Floor mats

EPA Mileage / Range, City/Hwy w/17.1 gallon tank
21 / 30 -- 359/513

and on the other side ....

Camrey i4/5M LE

Better fuel economy
Smoother ride
Quieter cabin
3.5 foot smaller turning circle
Rear seatbelt pretensioners
Tire Pressure Monitoring
Split folding rear bench
Rear center armrest storage
Speed sensitive volume
Aux mp3 audio input
15 vs 14 cu/ft luggage
Dusk sensing headlamps

EPA Mileage / Range, City/Hwy
24 / 34 EPA
444/629 Range with 18.5 gallon tank
Average of 100 miles greater range!

------------

So the Accord is your pick if money doesn't matter, and luxury, sporty
handling an power are tops, and,

If $7,170 is a chunk of change for you, and,
A smoother, quieter ride is important, and,
Fuel economy and range matter, and,
You can live with a butt-ugly grille,

The Camry LE looks like a winner.
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

Charles Lasitter wrote:
> snip
>
> Camrey i4/5M LE
>
> Better fuel economy
> Smoother ride
> Quieter cabin
> 3.5 foot smaller turning circle
> Rear seatbelt pretensioners
> Tire Pressure Monitoring
> Split folding rear bench
> Rear center armrest storage
> Speed sensitive volume
> Aux mp3 audio input
> 15 vs 14 cu/ft luggage
> Dusk sensing headlamps
>
> EPA Mileage / Range, City/Hwy
> 24 / 34 EPA
> 444/629 Range with 18.5 gallon tank
> Average of 100 miles greater range!
>
> ------------
>
> So the Accord is your pick if money doesn't matter, and luxury, sporty
> handling an power are tops, and,
>
> If $7,170 is a chunk of change for you, and,
> A smoother, quieter ride is important, and,
> Fuel economy and range matter, and,
> You can live with a butt-ugly grille,
>
> The Camry LE looks like a winner.
>

For about $2K more than an I4 Camry you can get the Camry Hybrid that
should average something like 35 mpg. It has a much smaller trunk but
more HP than the I4 Camry. I'm pretty sure the Camry Hybrid stacks up
well in your comparison.

We have one vehicle that is now used almost exclusively for short trips
in town. A Toyota Hybrid could be a practical choice if we wanted that
size car. But we're also looking at the new Civic. Not that much
smaller, great mpg but perhaps $10K less expensive than the Camry
Hybrid in another year or so. However, I worry about the short trips in
town and what that might do to a new engine, especially in winter.

 

Charles Lasitter wrote:
> snip
>
> Camrey i4/5M LE
>
> Better fuel economy
> Smoother ride
> Quieter cabin
> 3.5 foot smaller turning circle
> Rear seatbelt pretensioners
> Tire Pressure Monitoring
> Split folding rear bench
> Rear center armrest storage
> Speed sensitive volume
> Aux mp3 audio input
> 15 vs 14 cu/ft luggage
> Dusk sensing headlamps
>
> EPA Mileage / Range, City/Hwy
> 24 / 34 EPA
> 444/629 Range with 18.5 gallon tank
> Average of 100 miles greater range!
>
> ------------
>
> So the Accord is your pick if money doesn't matter, and luxury, sporty
> handling an power are tops, and,
>
> If $7,170 is a chunk of change for you, and,
> A smoother, quieter ride is important, and,
> Fuel economy and range matter, and,
> You can live with a butt-ugly grille,
>
> The Camry LE looks like a winner.
>

For about $2K more than an I4 Camry you can get the Camry Hybrid that
should average something like 35 mpg. It has a much smaller trunk but
more HP than the I4 Camry. I'm pretty sure the Camry Hybrid stacks up
well in your comparison.

We have one vehicle that is now used almost exclusively for short trips
in town. A Toyota Hybrid could be a practical choice if we wanted that
size car. But we're also looking at the new Civic. Not that much
smaller, great mpg but perhaps $10K less expensive than the Camry
Hybrid in another year or so. However, I worry about the short trips in
town and what that might do to a new engine, especially in winter.

 

Charles Lasitter wrote:
> snip
>
> Camrey i4/5M LE
>
> Better fuel economy
> Smoother ride
> Quieter cabin
> 3.5 foot smaller turning circle
> Rear seatbelt pretensioners
> Tire Pressure Monitoring
> Split folding rear bench
> Rear center armrest storage
> Speed sensitive volume
> Aux mp3 audio input
> 15 vs 14 cu/ft luggage
> Dusk sensing headlamps
>
> EPA Mileage / Range, City/Hwy
> 24 / 34 EPA
> 444/629 Range with 18.5 gallon tank
> Average of 100 miles greater range!
>
> ------------
>
> So the Accord is your pick if money doesn't matter, and luxury, sporty
> handling an power are tops, and,
>
> If $7,170 is a chunk of change for you, and,
> A smoother, quieter ride is important, and,
> Fuel economy and range matter, and,
> You can live with a butt-ugly grille,
>
> The Camry LE looks like a winner.
>

For about $2K more than an I4 Camry you can get the Camry Hybrid that
should average something like 35 mpg. It has a much smaller trunk but
more HP than the I4 Camry. I'm pretty sure the Camry Hybrid stacks up
well in your comparison.

We have one vehicle that is now used almost exclusively for short trips
in town. A Toyota Hybrid could be a practical choice if we wanted that
size car. But we're also looking at the new Civic. Not that much
smaller, great mpg but perhaps $10K less expensive than the Camry
Hybrid in another year or so. However, I worry about the short trips in
town and what that might do to a new engine, especially in winter.

 

On 25 Apr 2006 10:16:58 -0700, dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com wrote:

> For about $2K more than an I4 Camry you can get the Camry Hybrid that
> should average something like 35 mpg.

The purchase of a hybrid has been criticized of late as offering a false
economy. CR wrote that you almost can't drive enough miles for it to
make ($$) sense, especially compared to the more parsimonious gasoline
engine cars. But if it gives you a nice big environmental "warm and
fuzzy", I guess that's something ... unless you start looking at the
energy required to manufacture and recycle batteries, etc.

I guess I would look at a Prius if I were going that route.

> It has a much smaller trunk

WAY smaller ...

> but more HP than the I4 Camry. I'm pretty sure the Camry Hybrid
> stacks up well in your comparison.

Except for the biggie safety thing: You can't purchase vehicle
stability control w/traction control even as an option on the Hybrid.

It's also hundreds of pounds heavier than a regular i4, so I'm afraid it
would corner like a pig and would not stop as short.

Hmmm. Is the idea of suspension kit for a hybrid an oxymoron?
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

On 25 Apr 2006 10:16:58 -0700, dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com wrote:

> For about $2K more than an I4 Camry you can get the Camry Hybrid that
> should average something like 35 mpg.

The purchase of a hybrid has been criticized of late as offering a false
economy. CR wrote that you almost can't drive enough miles for it to
make ($$) sense, especially compared to the more parsimonious gasoline
engine cars. But if it gives you a nice big environmental "warm and
fuzzy", I guess that's something ... unless you start looking at the
energy required to manufacture and recycle batteries, etc.

I guess I would look at a Prius if I were going that route.

> It has a much smaller trunk

WAY smaller ...

> but more HP than the I4 Camry. I'm pretty sure the Camry Hybrid
> stacks up well in your comparison.

Except for the biggie safety thing: You can't purchase vehicle
stability control w/traction control even as an option on the Hybrid.

It's also hundreds of pounds heavier than a regular i4, so I'm afraid it
would corner like a pig and would not stop as short.

Hmmm. Is the idea of suspension kit for a hybrid an oxymoron?
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

On 25 Apr 2006 10:16:58 -0700, dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com wrote:

> For about $2K more than an I4 Camry you can get the Camry Hybrid that
> should average something like 35 mpg.

The purchase of a hybrid has been criticized of late as offering a false
economy. CR wrote that you almost can't drive enough miles for it to
make ($$) sense, especially compared to the more parsimonious gasoline
engine cars. But if it gives you a nice big environmental "warm and
fuzzy", I guess that's something ... unless you start looking at the
energy required to manufacture and recycle batteries, etc.

I guess I would look at a Prius if I were going that route.

> It has a much smaller trunk

WAY smaller ...

> but more HP than the I4 Camry. I'm pretty sure the Camry Hybrid
> stacks up well in your comparison.

Except for the biggie safety thing: You can't purchase vehicle
stability control w/traction control even as an option on the Hybrid.

It's also hundreds of pounds heavier than a regular i4, so I'm afraid it
would corner like a pig and would not stop as short.

Hmmm. Is the idea of suspension kit for a hybrid an oxymoron?
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

Consumer Reports admitted a mis-calculation for the Prius and probably the
new Civic would be a reasonable choice too.


"Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
news:i81t42t043ssgj6vvicb2dffcqk7jrpbrb@4ax.com...
> On 25 Apr 2006 10:16:58 -0700, dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> For about $2K more than an I4 Camry you can get the Camry Hybrid that
>> should average something like 35 mpg.
>
> The purchase of a hybrid has been criticized of late as offering a false
> economy. CR wrote that you almost can't drive enough miles for it to
> make ($$) sense, especially compared to the more parsimonious gasoline
> engine cars. But if it gives you a nice big environmental "warm and
> fuzzy", I guess that's something ... unless you start looking at the
> energy required to manufacture and recycle batteries, etc.
>
> I guess I would look at a Prius if I were going that route.
>
>> It has a much smaller trunk
>
> WAY smaller ...
>
>> but more HP than the I4 Camry. I'm pretty sure the Camry Hybrid
>> stacks up well in your comparison.
>
> Except for the biggie safety thing: You can't purchase vehicle
> stability control w/traction control even as an option on the Hybrid.
>
> It's also hundreds of pounds heavier than a regular i4, so I'm afraid it
> would corner like a pig and would not stop as short.
>
> Hmmm. Is the idea of suspension kit for a hybrid an oxymoron?
> +-----------------------------------------+
> | Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
> | 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
> | cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
> +-----------------------------------------+

 

Consumer Reports admitted a mis-calculation for the Prius and probably the
new Civic would be a reasonable choice too.


"Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
news:i81t42t043ssgj6vvicb2dffcqk7jrpbrb@4ax.com...
> On 25 Apr 2006 10:16:58 -0700, dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> For about $2K more than an I4 Camry you can get the Camry Hybrid that
>> should average something like 35 mpg.
>
> The purchase of a hybrid has been criticized of late as offering a false
> economy. CR wrote that you almost can't drive enough miles for it to
> make ($$) sense, especially compared to the more parsimonious gasoline
> engine cars. But if it gives you a nice big environmental "warm and
> fuzzy", I guess that's something ... unless you start looking at the
> energy required to manufacture and recycle batteries, etc.
>
> I guess I would look at a Prius if I were going that route.
>
>> It has a much smaller trunk
>
> WAY smaller ...
>
>> but more HP than the I4 Camry. I'm pretty sure the Camry Hybrid
>> stacks up well in your comparison.
>
> Except for the biggie safety thing: You can't purchase vehicle
> stability control w/traction control even as an option on the Hybrid.
>
> It's also hundreds of pounds heavier than a regular i4, so I'm afraid it
> would corner like a pig and would not stop as short.
>
> Hmmm. Is the idea of suspension kit for a hybrid an oxymoron?
> +-----------------------------------------+
> | Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
> | 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
> | cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
> +-----------------------------------------+

 

Consumer Reports admitted a mis-calculation for the Prius and probably the
new Civic would be a reasonable choice too.


"Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
news:i81t42t043ssgj6vvicb2dffcqk7jrpbrb@4ax.com...
> On 25 Apr 2006 10:16:58 -0700, dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> For about $2K more than an I4 Camry you can get the Camry Hybrid that
>> should average something like 35 mpg.
>
> The purchase of a hybrid has been criticized of late as offering a false
> economy. CR wrote that you almost can't drive enough miles for it to
> make ($$) sense, especially compared to the more parsimonious gasoline
> engine cars. But if it gives you a nice big environmental "warm and
> fuzzy", I guess that's something ... unless you start looking at the
> energy required to manufacture and recycle batteries, etc.
>
> I guess I would look at a Prius if I were going that route.
>
>> It has a much smaller trunk
>
> WAY smaller ...
>
>> but more HP than the I4 Camry. I'm pretty sure the Camry Hybrid
>> stacks up well in your comparison.
>
> Except for the biggie safety thing: You can't purchase vehicle
> stability control w/traction control even as an option on the Hybrid.
>
> It's also hundreds of pounds heavier than a regular i4, so I'm afraid it
> would corner like a pig and would not stop as short.
>
> Hmmm. Is the idea of suspension kit for a hybrid an oxymoron?
> +-----------------------------------------+
> | Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
> | 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
> | cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
> +-----------------------------------------+

 

"Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
news:iugs42p9rgq55i7dbi9qu42b98idf3gvf7@4ax.com...
> Because of my recent enhanced upderstanding of the safety features
> listed below, and how my '05 Accord LX doesn't have them ...
>
> Traction Control
> Stability Control
> Emergency Braking Assistance
> Electronic Brakeforce Distribution
>
> (newer Honda LXs have ...)
> Rear disks
> DRL
>
> I decided to take a hard look at the Camry LE, versus what I'd have to
> buy from Honda to get the features above. I already knew I couldn't get
> the features in any LX / Special Edition / Special Value models with a
> stick, and because I like a manual transmission, I'd have to go up to
> the the EX with V6 and 6M.
>
> Aside from power and handling, the Accord EX and Camry LE are very
> different in character because of differences between the two in
> handling, economy, convenience, and comfort, but controlling for as many
> factors as possible, the Camry i4/5M LE looks like a heck of a value.
>
> Beginning in 2007, Toyota includes so many of these features standard
> for the Camry that the single "VS" (vehicle stability / traction) option
> for $650 gets you all the safety features above.
>
> That means if you can live with an i4/5M versus a V6/6M,
> your MSRP savings for this level of safety is:
>
> $27,850 V6/6M Honda EX
> -20,680 i4/5M Camry (with VS option)
> ------
> $ 7,170 or, 34.7 percent less for the Camry LE.
>
> And if you really have to have the extra power of the V6/6A, the Camry
> still wins as the 3.5L produces HP/Torque comparisons of:
>
> 268HP/248FT-LB, versus
> 244HP/211FT-LB for the Accord EX V6/6M
>
> And better fuel economy, and at MSRP of $24,270 with
> the VS option group included, is still $3,580 less than
> the EX Accord.
>
> But this is a digression, since you can't get the V6 Camry with a stick,
> (which I want), and don't want the extra horses if it means giving up up
> the stick. (If you like automatics, this could an even sweeter deal for
> you ...)
>

The only way I'd give up my stick is if my knees can't physically push down
a clutch pedal anymore, haha. as for the safety features, I was suprised
honda dind't offer it on the I4. I lot of peopel have made mention that it's
not really needed with an I4, but living in new england, I would of liked
it. that being said. I still managed to get an I4 EX manual with leather and
NAVI for under 25k. It wasn't too bad in the snow either (although we got
lucky with a pretty mild winter) I took a look at toyotas site, and I didn't
see anyway to get a camry with navigation in a manual transmission.

 

"Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
news:iugs42p9rgq55i7dbi9qu42b98idf3gvf7@4ax.com...
> Because of my recent enhanced upderstanding of the safety features
> listed below, and how my '05 Accord LX doesn't have them ...
>
> Traction Control
> Stability Control
> Emergency Braking Assistance
> Electronic Brakeforce Distribution
>
> (newer Honda LXs have ...)
> Rear disks
> DRL
>
> I decided to take a hard look at the Camry LE, versus what I'd have to
> buy from Honda to get the features above. I already knew I couldn't get
> the features in any LX / Special Edition / Special Value models with a
> stick, and because I like a manual transmission, I'd have to go up to
> the the EX with V6 and 6M.
>
> Aside from power and handling, the Accord EX and Camry LE are very
> different in character because of differences between the two in
> handling, economy, convenience, and comfort, but controlling for as many
> factors as possible, the Camry i4/5M LE looks like a heck of a value.
>
> Beginning in 2007, Toyota includes so many of these features standard
> for the Camry that the single "VS" (vehicle stability / traction) option
> for $650 gets you all the safety features above.
>
> That means if you can live with an i4/5M versus a V6/6M,
> your MSRP savings for this level of safety is:
>
> $27,850 V6/6M Honda EX
> -20,680 i4/5M Camry (with VS option)
> ------
> $ 7,170 or, 34.7 percent less for the Camry LE.
>
> And if you really have to have the extra power of the V6/6A, the Camry
> still wins as the 3.5L produces HP/Torque comparisons of:
>
> 268HP/248FT-LB, versus
> 244HP/211FT-LB for the Accord EX V6/6M
>
> And better fuel economy, and at MSRP of $24,270 with
> the VS option group included, is still $3,580 less than
> the EX Accord.
>
> But this is a digression, since you can't get the V6 Camry with a stick,
> (which I want), and don't want the extra horses if it means giving up up
> the stick. (If you like automatics, this could an even sweeter deal for
> you ...)
>

The only way I'd give up my stick is if my knees can't physically push down
a clutch pedal anymore, haha. as for the safety features, I was suprised
honda dind't offer it on the I4. I lot of peopel have made mention that it's
not really needed with an I4, but living in new england, I would of liked
it. that being said. I still managed to get an I4 EX manual with leather and
NAVI for under 25k. It wasn't too bad in the snow either (although we got
lucky with a pretty mild winter) I took a look at toyotas site, and I didn't
see anyway to get a camry with navigation in a manual transmission.

 

"Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
news:iugs42p9rgq55i7dbi9qu42b98idf3gvf7@4ax.com...
> Because of my recent enhanced upderstanding of the safety features
> listed below, and how my '05 Accord LX doesn't have them ...
>
> Traction Control
> Stability Control
> Emergency Braking Assistance
> Electronic Brakeforce Distribution
>
> (newer Honda LXs have ...)
> Rear disks
> DRL
>
> I decided to take a hard look at the Camry LE, versus what I'd have to
> buy from Honda to get the features above. I already knew I couldn't get
> the features in any LX / Special Edition / Special Value models with a
> stick, and because I like a manual transmission, I'd have to go up to
> the the EX with V6 and 6M.
>
> Aside from power and handling, the Accord EX and Camry LE are very
> different in character because of differences between the two in
> handling, economy, convenience, and comfort, but controlling for as many
> factors as possible, the Camry i4/5M LE looks like a heck of a value.
>
> Beginning in 2007, Toyota includes so many of these features standard
> for the Camry that the single "VS" (vehicle stability / traction) option
> for $650 gets you all the safety features above.
>
> That means if you can live with an i4/5M versus a V6/6M,
> your MSRP savings for this level of safety is:
>
> $27,850 V6/6M Honda EX
> -20,680 i4/5M Camry (with VS option)
> ------
> $ 7,170 or, 34.7 percent less for the Camry LE.
>
> And if you really have to have the extra power of the V6/6A, the Camry
> still wins as the 3.5L produces HP/Torque comparisons of:
>
> 268HP/248FT-LB, versus
> 244HP/211FT-LB for the Accord EX V6/6M
>
> And better fuel economy, and at MSRP of $24,270 with
> the VS option group included, is still $3,580 less than
> the EX Accord.
>
> But this is a digression, since you can't get the V6 Camry with a stick,
> (which I want), and don't want the extra horses if it means giving up up
> the stick. (If you like automatics, this could an even sweeter deal for
> you ...)
>

The only way I'd give up my stick is if my knees can't physically push down
a clutch pedal anymore, haha. as for the safety features, I was suprised
honda dind't offer it on the I4. I lot of peopel have made mention that it's
not really needed with an I4, but living in new england, I would of liked
it. that being said. I still managed to get an I4 EX manual with leather and
NAVI for under 25k. It wasn't too bad in the snow either (although we got
lucky with a pretty mild winter) I took a look at toyotas site, and I didn't
see anyway to get a camry with navigation in a manual transmission.

 

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:58:58 GMT, "Art"
<begunaNOSPAMPLEASE@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Consumer Reports admitted a mis-calculation for the Prius and probably the
> new Civic would be a reasonable choice too.

I forgot: Is Accord Hybrid even available with stick?
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:58:58 GMT, "Art"
<begunaNOSPAMPLEASE@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Consumer Reports admitted a mis-calculation for the Prius and probably the
> new Civic would be a reasonable choice too.

I forgot: Is Accord Hybrid even available with stick?
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+